Can I Quote That For You? // Evan Zebley of EZ Signs / Better Sign Shop

00:00:00Evan Zebley: #72b372;">Evan Zebley: Learn how to build a better sign and print shop from a few crusty sign guys who've made more mistakes than they care to admit conversations and advice on pricing, sales, marketing, [00:00:15] workflow, growth, and more. You're listening to the better sign shop podcast with your hosts, Peter Kourounis, Michael Reilly, and Bryant Gillespie.[00:00:30]

00:00:37Bryant Gillespie: #6600cc;">Bryant Gillespie: Before we jump into the episode, I'd like to give a shout out to our sponsor, GCI digital printing, grand format [00:00:45] printer to the trade. GCI is not your average print shop. They pride themselves on providing you a fast, stress free experience when outsourcing. Their no excuses mindset means no matter the job, they'll have it done [00:01:00] every time.

00:01:15 TJ Bedak about top tier customer experience. If you're looking for a high quality trade printer, for banners, mesh, coroplast, and more, TJ and his crew will have your back.

00:01:30 Check them out at PrintGCI. com. Hi guys, welcome back to the next episode of the Better Sign Shop Podcast. I'm your host, Brian Gillespie. Uh, my two co hosts, Michael and Peter are not here at the [00:01:45] moment. So I figured I would go ahead and kick this one off. Um, if you're watching the video feed, you'll see this amazing mustache.

00:02:00 costume. My wife dressed up as Taylor Swift. I was, of course. Uh, Travis Kelsey, uh, if you know me, you know, I'm the furthest thing from an NFL football player, but, um, anyway, you got to go all in sometimes. [00:02:15] Uh, today we've got a, another special guest with us.

00:02:30 Thanks. Nice

00:02:31Evan Zebley: #72b372;">Evan Zebley: to be here.

00:02:31Bryant Gillespie: #6600cc;">Bryant Gillespie: I originally reached out to you several months ago, maybe half a year at this point, because I saw that you were posting a lot of really cool videos of like sign installs and stuff that you were doing for clients.

00:02:45 Um, I thought it would be a great story to have you on and interview you about that, but. In that time, I think you've had a lot of changes going on professionally, so, uh, maybe you want to jump in and just give us some of your backstory and tell us about your journey in the [00:03:00] industry.

00:03:00Evan Zebley: #72b372;">Evan Zebley: Sure. I mean, uh, it's, I guess the truncated version, cause it's pretty eventful.

00:03:15 classic, you go into a job, you work it for 30 years, you stay loyal to that company. I get that. And that's commendable. That was not the path for me.

00:03:30 And that's what I've been doing year by year. So I've had the great opportunity, uh, every year that as I grow a market to then ask my employer, Hey, are we ready to take my income to the next level?

00:03:45 I'm going to go on to the next thing though. And, uh, just keep going until now that's culminated in. I have to have my own shop. So that just started two months ago is the first time in about 10 years that I've felt comfortable saying, you know what, I've got a good [00:04:00] customer base.

00:04:15 myself every week, which is a bonus. Uh, you know, there's money in the bank.

00:04:30 an excellent product that will work for your, your need. Uh, but. Everybody's not marketing that.

00:04:45 my face, knowing me personally in my market.

00:04:49Bryant Gillespie: #6600cc;">Bryant Gillespie: Gotcha. So you kind of built your own brand. If we, if we back up a little bit, like how did you get your start in the industry?

00:05:00 I think you said you've been in the industry at least 10 years now.

00:05:02Evan Zebley: #72b372;">Evan Zebley: Yeah, it's been about 10 years. Um, so I was, uh, before I got into anything to do with media, I was actually managing restaurants and bars. So I was very much into that life [00:05:15] where it's, you know, I'm peddling booze pretty much and making good money.

00:05:30 take the kid to the soccer game at eight. Doesn't really work that great. So I was like, I got to do something different.

00:05:45 definitely it, um, I was the narrow point of the funnel when it came to production design. And so. Every ad that was in every newspaper, every magazine, every book that all went across my desk.

00:06:00 half when my sister called me. And my sister was working for a farmer in South Georgia that had a sign shop in his farmhouse. And she said, Evan, you know, the guy I'm working for says he's tired of signs. He wants to sell all the [00:06:15] equipment and the book of business to us for 10, 000.

00:06:30 So, uh, she lived in South Georgia. I was in kind of North Georgia at the time and moved down there to South Georgia. And I remember week one, it was like, we've got.

00:06:45 banner order. I don't even really know what a banner is. I don't, certainly don't know how to print it or like what this big machine is. Like, I don't know anything about this. And my sister's like, well, that's cool, but I have to have a baby right now.

00:07:00 And so she, she was pregnant with, uh, with my niece at the time. And, um, anyway, like the switcheroo, it was literally like, okay, figure this out. And I remember it's, I [00:07:15] remember the model, you know, we were running a Roland S 500, V and, uh, it's a solvent inkjet printer. And of course the smell of it, all of that, I figured out, you know, okay, this is how you load media.

00:07:30 Oh, but I'm getting these lines on the print. I don't know what to do. And I, oh, there's gotta be something. And the only solution I could figure out at the time was to sit there and hold. The banner as it was coming out. So I was sitting there manually taking up about 150 [00:07:45] linear feet of banner, just hoping because, you know, it's, it's the sign that they need it tomorrow.

00:07:54Peter Kourounis: #de4a1d;">Peter Kourounis: for me, I don't mean to stop you there, Evan, but I love that you said that just shows how [00:08:00] like really into this business. You really are because only a true person in the signage where you could say something like that and know that I have legit experience.

00:08:15 was crumpled up pieces of tape. A blue painter's tape like put underneath the vinyl so that it like comes out straighter and then those those little like harbor freight squeeze clamps that you could like put on it so that it keeps [00:08:30] it taut and wait you know I mean like it's that's so funny that you've been there and I haven't heard too many of my clients or anybody that I've worked with like say that so I know now exactly

00:08:42Evan Zebley: #72b372;">Evan Zebley: who I'm talking to.

00:08:45 I gotta tell you that, um, that, that began, you know, the, the whole sign journey. Right. And, and of course, like I said, we're working out of a pole barn, which we had, I think we started in November. He gave us until January to move out. [00:09:00] Um, so found a little 1500 square foot spot in a strip mall.

00:09:15 and getting the new shop set up. And I mean, I did it, of course I did it because come Monday we have to get back to work, so I couldn't just not do it. Um, but yeah, that relationship with that Roland, the Roland was a great printer.

00:09:30 I learned how to take. Every safety feature off of it, how to get it completely taken apart. Like it was like the most manual printer since like a Heidelberg press or something. Like if you weren't watching it and it didn't have media, it was just going to like spew [00:09:45] ink on the floor. Like I needed it to work, you know, I didn't, I didn't have money to go get another printer.

00:10:00 want to go be my own boss. Or they look at their boss and they think, man, this person has no idea. I can do it way better. Well, I learned all the things that I didn't know.

00:10:15 sleeping on the work tables, be there for 72 hours at a time. You know, I learned what it meant to. Uh, have somebody else making promises that you have to deliver on and now you're the one that's got to make it happen. [00:10:30] Um, I, I learned about, you know, the stuff that a lot of people don't think about that, Hey, if it's too much work and you literally can't get it done and you've got to pay somebody else to help you, well, the cashflow, right?

00:10:45 haven't paid you yet. And guess who's not getting a check? You. Like you can't not pay your employee. And, um, so it was a lot of great struggles, but also a lot of great opportunities, learning opportunities to know, okay, this is the kind of person I want to be.

00:11:00 wanted to be this kind of a boss. Well, now's my chance to really do it. I always told myself I wanted to deliver this way for my customers. Well, now's the opportunity for me to actually do that. And, you know, we grew, I think, um, the person we bought that business from, they were using it sort [00:11:15] of like a tax write off to just funnel expenses into, uh, they were grossing maybe like 30 K a year.

00:11:30 liability and. I think in our first year, it was just me and my sister and we did about 180. And then the second year we were about like mid threes.

00:11:45 that was kind of it. You know, we're not a franchise brand. We didn't have name recognition, but I have a sales team out there. It was just us kind of in the shop working. And then also we were in kind of a saturated market. There were actually small, small market, not that [00:12:00] many customers, but a lot of sign shops.

00:12:15 250. And you're like, well, 250, I'm going to go buy it from them.

00:12:22Bryant Gillespie: #6600cc;">Bryant Gillespie: incredibly common in this industry. Like that's a, you hop on the forums. That's the first thing you hear is like, Hey, this guy's undercutting me. And it's like, well, [00:12:30] like it, let him let, I mean, what do you do?

00:12:32Evan Zebley: #72b372;">Evan Zebley: I mean, that's, that's it. It's like, you have to find your customers.

00:12:45 into the market. So, uh, you know, now this is the downside of being in a family business is that. When you're in the business, and this was a thing that I learned, and then I think other people should learn it as well.

00:13:00 that you're doing, even when you're so busy that you don't want to take the time to do that. The reason is when you're working for 24 hours straight, and then somebody asks you on what. What did you do when you've been working for [00:13:15] 24 hours straight? You're like on everything.

00:13:30 So you can't communicate effectively. So that's one thing that I, a piece of advice I definitely learned is you got to document what you're doing.

00:13:45 had things that I wanted to accomplish professionally, my family didn't hear that necessarily from Evan, the professional, they heard that from Evan, you know, my brother, Evan, my son, Evan, whoever, like, oh, that's just Evan, like he, he doesn't [00:14:00] know where we don't really have to, you know, Go into a new market.

00:14:10Bryant Gillespie: #6600cc;">Bryant Gillespie: there's definitely a lot of interesting dynamics in

00:14:12Evan Zebley: #72b372;">Evan Zebley: family business. Oh yeah. Well, and, [00:14:15] and, you know, this was another good opportunity that happened though, was for one, a mistake that I made was I let myself.

00:14:30 operating in the yellow and the red. They, they don't know what it feels like to just go 2000 RPMs. Cause they're going like 6, 000 all the time. And I was definitely that way. So I didn't know what my limit was until I hit it.

00:14:45 like. Okay, and the basically what I said to my family was I can be in this business or I can be in this family, but I can't do both. And what I'm going to decide to do is [00:15:00] leave this business because I think in the long run, it's going to be better for all of us if I just.

00:15:15 And that was really a hard pill for them to swallow. Um, that I think it, you know, we did talk again, but it took a year before it was like, okay, let's have Christmas, you know, let's, let's actually have these conversations.

00:15:30 I think at least six years. Just because just the hard feelings that were there, but me leaving that. I was like, okay, I'm cold turkey leaving. What am I going to go do? Just so happened. I knew of another sign business, kind of where I came from. [00:15:45] Uh, and they actually weren't in signs at the time.

00:16:00 need somebody to help you with that?

00:16:15 had a 5 by 10 flatbed direct to substrate UV printer. We had a 5 by 10 belt fed Kongsberg. Um, I had another, uh, CNC that was in a back room.

00:16:30 not just certified installers, but 3M certified shop so that we could bring our vehicles in. And so I learned all of the procedures and I learned every single machine to the point that I think it took me three months before I could have operators on [00:16:45] those machines, instead of me doing everything and just like, Hey, push this button, do this, drag this over here.

00:17:00 this big equipment that I certainly couldn't afford and work with these big customers that it's like, Hey, you know, these are awesome jobs, things that we don't think about.

00:17:15 so there was a local company that their worldwide distribution, they manufactured their cabinets out of Lexan and they were getting this printed somewhere in like Minnesota. We're in Georgia. [00:17:30] And I was like, all right, well, what's your lead time?

00:17:45 print it. We're going to CNC route it to your spec.

00:18:00 part of your manufacturing and they're like, absolutely, let's go, let's do it. And that was, you know, that's a great account.

00:18:15 a second. If you had any questions.

00:18:17Bryant Gillespie: #6600cc;">Bryant Gillespie: Yeah, no, no. Like one of the questions that I had was like, did they have all this equipment, like waiting when you came in or like you helped through the procurement of all of that?

00:18:27Evan Zebley: #72b372;">Evan Zebley: like? No, I wasn't there for procurement, which I [00:18:30] think was actually probably a good thing, because I don't think at that point, after only being in for two years. I had enough experience to really tell them what they would need to do and how they would need to scale. And that's why I think it was a great learning opportunity for me, because I went [00:18:45] from, okay, roll to roll shop, which we were good.

00:19:00 I would print sometimes, you know, six rolls of media at a time. You know, that's how many roles we were printing, like just for a order.

00:19:15 thinking about how can I manufacture these parts that go into somebody's production process? I don't think I had a good understanding of that before. I arrived at that next company, but the experience that I gained from learning and, and, you know, [00:19:30] to what Peter was talking about every morning, I'm in there, you know, cleaning all the heads physically on that UV printer, making sure there's like, I knew, and you know, this, if you work in a shop, you know, what your equipment sounds like.

00:19:45 think I have PTSD from, from the platter that I used to run. Like I would hear it move. And I just like, whatever I was doing, I, it was like an instinct. It's like a baby crying or something. You just like drop everything and go run. Like, is it about to [00:20:00] destroy my print?

00:20:02Bryant Gillespie: #6600cc;">Bryant Gillespie: you know, this 3, 000 job. That's something I have to waste three hours reprinting it.

00:20:08Evan Zebley: #72b372;">Evan Zebley: Yes. I mean, it's still to the point that I haven't used that, that same Imaki plotter and like. I don't know, eight years. I [00:20:15] still, like, if I hear a graph tech move a certain way, I'm like, Oh my God, is the print.

00:20:22Bryant Gillespie: #6600cc;">Bryant Gillespie: I've done that so many times. Like back in the old shop, we, we actually did not only signage, but apparel as well. [00:20:30] So like one area, we had like a 60 by a hundred building. We had embroidery in one area. I felt like I needed a pair of roller skates because like you could hear something going on with one of the embroidery machines.

00:20:45 And then, hey, like, you know, you turn around and then you've got the flatbed printer. You know, you hear something weird going on there. And we had ACET that had a, a belt that would walk up and down. So like if you were doing 150 or a hundred [00:21:00] feet. Of a banner material, you had to babysit it.

00:21:05Evan Zebley: #72b372;">Evan Zebley: That's crazy. No, that's well. And yeah, I guess getting to that, that so the experience level, like what you're talking about using those [00:21:15] pieces of equipment. It gives you so much knowledge that you couldn't even really think about until you started working that like, okay, not only do I need to know how each one of these pieces of equipment is supposed to work, but like, how do they fail?

00:21:30 sound like when that's happening? How do I really run these things? And that's the kind of experience that I got working in a bigger shop that was bankrolled by somebody else. And eventually, again, like I mentioned, [00:21:45] sort of at the beginning, having the opportunity to grow out of places, which I don't, I don't burn bridges.

00:22:00 And I'll put it this way. One of the things I thought about when I was at that shop. Was I was like, you know what I think I have an opportunity here that I could do a lot of great things at this shop, but in what areas can I [00:22:15] grow like I'm good at production.

00:22:30 okay, well, what about marketing? What about sales?

00:22:45 but that of the options I was thinking of, that was the only one that I was like, Oh, you know what, if I learned a lot about this business, that's kind of unlimited, uncapped potential.

00:23:00 because there's nothing to design and nothing to make if you haven't sold anything. So I took on a sales position and it was sort of a hybrid position because when I went to sales, also classic of sign shops. [00:23:15] You have very few people that work there, right? So you wear multiple hats, even as an employee.

00:23:30 look, I... You know, you're holding me back from being able to go and do sales. So I can't even focus on this job, like to see if I'm any good at it or not.

00:23:45 which was again, a unique learning opportunity because it was small. I want to call it like mom and pop, kind of like what me and my sister had where it's roll to roll. Uh, there's, I think, including me, four employees, but it comes with that [00:24:00] corporate name.

00:24:15 important. I knew like, oh, but we're making signs. So we're fine. Right. Well, the first thing I had to do being over operations has come in, look at the numbers, check out what's happening.

00:24:30 that work for themselves or have their own business, they miss out on that. You know, you hear a lot of like idioms and one of those idioms is that money is the lifeblood of a business. And people hear that and they're like, no, that's not true.

00:24:45 business. Like what I make, my product is the heart of the business. And I'm here to tell you, no, it's not.

00:24:51Bryant Gillespie: #6600cc;">Bryant Gillespie: A good thing to call out for sure.

00:24:53Evan Zebley: #72b372;">Evan Zebley: I mean, you can have the, you're the best person in the world with the greatest product in the world. If you're not selling it, if money's not flowing, [00:25:00] like that's, that's dead.

00:25:05Bryant Gillespie: #6600cc;">Bryant Gillespie: sure like Peter, like you could speak to this, like, how many guys do you talk to that are like, Hey, I see every day, the volume of work going out. [00:25:15] And I know, and I see the numbers, but at the end of the year, when it, when I look at the bottom line, it's like, where, where's that actual profit that I thought we were making the entire year?

00:25:28Peter Kourounis: #de4a1d;">Peter Kourounis: Yeah. You know, [00:25:30] look, I mean, I actually get that a lot, but there's usually an answer to that there. It's not that it's, uh, it's not that it's gone. It's not that it's a way, you know, it's, there is a reason for where all of that money had [00:25:45] gone. You know, we need to, is it your pricing? Are you charging enough for your time?

00:26:00 that is kind of on this path here of where does all that money go? Where does all that time go? So I was in a seminar recently and.

00:26:15 honestly, home services is probably 1 of the easiest areas to sell hours. Okay? Because, you know, it takes you 5 hours to do a repair. This is our hourly rate. It's great. You know, it's super, super easy math, uh, in a lot of [00:26:30] areas that that makes a lot of sense.

00:26:45 departments. Right? So, in all in a lot of areas, in a lot of stops, it has nothing to do with the knowledge of your billable rate, but maybe not charging.

00:27:00 and like, I'm wasting all this time and I'm okay. Well, what's your hourly rate? It's 200 an hour. Okay. Well, at least, you know, that right. But how many hours did you sell for this project? Right. And how many hours did you actually work [00:27:15] on this project?

00:27:30 project. And that's a hidden, it's a hidden metric, right? It's a hidden metric.

00:27:45 on your own. Right? There's no software. Shopbox doesn't do this. Corbridge doesn't do this. There's nobody that's going to say, well, we sold 30 hours and it took 22.

00:28:00 were you over? Were you under? And in a lot of places, people are selling based off price. They're, they're not asserting their value. They're thinking this is our market value. This is our market price and. Okay, if it took you, if you took your [00:28:15] shop six hours, but it could take another shop three hours with a different type of machine, one that you don't have to hold onto the banner as it comes out, you know, if it comes out, you know, maybe they have a faster printing machine.

00:28:30 you know, hand grommet and seem a banner in. 40 minutes where it take you two hours. You know, I don't know. I'm, I'm making all this up as I go. But the fact is, is that the minutia of those details is often where [00:28:45] people get the answer to their problem, which is I'm working my ass off, but I have.

00:29:00 price that you're charging. It's not often the markup on the materials. I mean, that's all easy stuff. It's often the hours that you're selling is not enough to take on the scope of the project.

00:29:14Bryant Gillespie: #6600cc;">Bryant Gillespie: definitely a [00:29:15] challenge in the operations.

00:29:15Evan Zebley: #72b372;">Evan Zebley: Well, I was going to say, I definitely see that. And one of the great opportunities that I had going to fast signs and you hit on it is actually, I think at that time, they, that was at the same time they were making the switch from their previous ERP to [00:29:30] core bridge.

00:29:45 So we know where's our money really going. Well, now it was, I was working with a system that I was building out to do that.

00:30:00 Hey, you know, we own the building. Great, but we're still paying on it. So, you know, this printer takes up X number of square feet. And we have X number available. So right away, even if it's doing nothing, even if it's unplugged, it costs money just sitting there, [00:30:15] taking up space and then, you know, looking at the real actual costs, things that people gloss over, like, oh yeah, I don't, I don't consider ink one of my costs.

00:30:30 32 cents a square foot, it depends, you know, um, and it's important because it adds up and then that was. One of the things I implemented immediately with the staff there was I did my job to make sure on the back end without them having to do anything that we [00:30:45] understood what our costs were.

00:31:00 How many jobs do we actually get out in a day? Like how long did it actually take? And so I would pick jobs.

00:31:15 So then you have an overall time, right? Like, Oh yeah, it took us a week for the job to get out. But how many hours did we actually put into the actual job?

00:31:30 I will say, like, yeah, everybody in their businesses, they got different ways they want to run it. If you want to really know what's going on, you got to be willing to stop what you're doing and take the time to really dive in. And a lot of times with an owner, with the owner mentality, [00:31:45] you're stressed.

00:32:00 percent margin with you when you could be carrying 80%?

00:32:15 how efficiently are you making your money? Because if you can work the same amount for 100 as you were working for 50, like, make the 100.

00:32:30 franchise, looking at the numbers, what was great was even though a lot of stuff was missing, it was very obvious, it was my introduction to, I guess, uh, what we say, forensic accounting, where it's like, oh, somebody's stealing and they're [00:32:45] stealing a lot and the great thing about working with a franchise like that is that you have people that are supposed to come and talk to you about how does your store perform compared to other stores.

00:33:00 selling? Like what kind of products, what are you selling them for versus other stores, all that kind of stuff. So I had all the metrics of how a fast science was supposed to operate. It was to

00:33:10Bryant Gillespie: #6600cc;">Bryant Gillespie: run. Yeah. And that's like the business development rep, right? That's right. So right. Peter, [00:33:15] Peter's a former fast science guy as well.

00:33:25Evan Zebley: #72b372;">Evan Zebley: signs. So you get it and it's, and depending on how your rep is and [00:33:30] how your market is, there's, there's some back and forth, right? Like there's, for instance, I was told, Hey, you need to go up to this square foot pricing on this product.

00:33:45 And this is what we're comfortable selling. What I am willing to do is make sure that we do it efficiently. So for instance, something that a lot of shop owners, and I, I don't know if it's a pride thing, or they don't realize this is an option is that you can outsource.

00:34:00 do everything yourself with your equipment. For instance, let's say like a hundred percent of your workforce is working on this job for your biggest customer. Meanwhile, you have other customers that still want stuff. Well, guess what? You don't have to work second shifts and third [00:34:15] shifts to try to accommodate everybody.

00:34:30 overworking yourself and your employees. That is an option. But anyway, it was pretty easy to step into this particular franchise and see like, okay, we're underperforming by about 70 percent compared to other stores.

00:34:45 stealing. Um, so we're getting rid of that. We're doing employee turnover. I got very, very lucky. I was able to get a great, uh, in, in fast signs, that front desk person, we call them inside sales. So it had a great inside sales person [00:35:00] that. And I will say this, a lot of my restaurant training came in great at a fast science because I already could speak corporate and I understood when you're on, when you're on a grill line, [00:35:15] you have grill operators and they're each stationed in this particular spot.

00:35:30 four, because then you're losing their efficiency by taking them too many slots away. So in my fast signs operation, it was like, look, you're inside sales.

00:35:45 understanding how manufacturing stuff works, but I don't ever want you in manufacturing. All I ever want you to do is be here. Taking care of customers and possibly assisting with design. The designer, they're station two.

00:36:00 answer the phone sometimes. That's just the thing that's going to happen. I know you're not going to be as good as our front desk person, but it is going to happen. You're not going to manufacture, but you're going to know how to run these printers. So that if the manufacturing person can't do it, you can.

00:36:15 You stay right here. Same way manufacturing person. All right. You're going to understand how to run these printers. It's not your main job. Your main job is to put the science together, you know, and it keep going down the line that way to maintain these efficiencies and personnel.

00:36:30 really, though, made it a successful franchise was going from being completely in house to having me, once I had the team set up, that freed up my time to go be an outside salesperson. Then at that point, it was like, [00:36:45] okay, great, we're running what we need to run in house. We're manufacturing the things that we're good at manufacturing, that we make a high margin on, like banners and vinyl.

00:37:00 types of decals, not every wrap, not every decal, and then I'm able to set up my vendor list of, all right, all right, who's a good wholesaler that I got somebody because of the name that they were like, Hey, I need to have.[00:37:15]

00:37:30 really understood. Okay. You have different projects with different lead times.

00:37:36Peter Kourounis: #de4a1d;">Peter Kourounis: to I'm going to stop you right there. I'm going to stop you. Yeah. All right. Uh, a lot of times when we bring on guests here, they're super excited, but they they talk. They talk. They talk and I [00:37:45] have so many notes here. I want to stop here because this is this is an interest. This is a, uh, this is an interesting piece of the puzzle.

00:37:56Evan Zebley: #72b372;">Evan Zebley: I want to date you. Okay, okay. Maybe if I get my [00:38:00] mustache back.

00:38:03Peter Kourounis: #de4a1d;">Peter Kourounis: I'll leave the mustache talk for you

00:38:05Evan Zebley: #72b372;">Evan Zebley: and Brian. You guys got, you

00:38:07Peter Kourounis: #de4a1d;">Peter Kourounis: guys got some hell of a stache going there. But, um, for me, you would make an excellent business partner for [00:38:15] me.

00:38:30 that. Um, never say no type of guy, right? Never say no type of guy.

00:38:45 You talked about, you just mentioned, like, you don't have a crane, you don't get into, like, metal fab, or, you know, whatever, and, and, that's not, okay, so I'll, I'll, I'll put my FastSigns hat on for a minute.

00:39:00 The majority of their centers, they don't practice this area of sign making. They use their vendor networks, they outsource, you know, I was there, I've been there, and I've done that. But for somebody like [00:39:15] yourself, I'm actually very genuinely honest to hear your opinion.

00:39:30 because you are in that area of like, if I get that somebody that's going to ask. I'm going to do it. I'm going to say yes, you know, I'm going to do whatever I can.

00:39:45 should I be getting a break and maybe a CNC machine, maybe getting a higher and one or two more guys, maybe

00:39:49Evan Zebley: #72b372;">Evan Zebley: whatnot. Well, so yeah, to your point, then I would say anybody in any business that you start out and you don't really have anything right, your [00:40:00] ground roots and you think about something you want to get into.

00:40:15 important in my mind to know, as soon as you start that part of your business plan should be, how long am I going to vend? Before it hits a point where it makes sense for me to manufacture in house, but you got to understand the cost of it, like what you were talking about, [00:40:30] how much does the personnel cost?

00:40:45 yes, I've thought about it because I am a very analytic person and I like, I'm one of those weird people that, you know, you drive down the road and somebody's like, oh, you know, it'd be really good right there, a popcorn shop.

00:41:00 the business plan? For a popcorn shop. How does it work? What's required to do that? What is the market like? What is the support? Who else is already doing it? You know, you think of your SWOT analysis, blah, blah, blah. But this is all stuff that I didn't know before I got into the sign business.[00:41:15]

00:41:23Peter Kourounis: #de4a1d;">Peter Kourounis: [00:41:30] No,

00:41:32Evan Zebley: #72b372;">Evan Zebley: you got it. You taught you what being in this industry taught me that it is important to really understand your business. Not to think that, you know, everything to be self critical.

00:41:45 able to take advice, to look around you and think about how can I do this better? You're not the king of the hill. There's always opportunities to be better. You know, I love watching sports documentaries and not because I'm a huge sports person, but [00:42:00] because I do have some of that. Comp that competitiveness in myself.

00:42:15 they're doing that makes them so successful? And how can I do that? And what is it? And what you're talking about with about find the solution. Yes, I do that for my customers, but I have to do that for myself too.

00:42:30 okay, I was doing it wrong. I had the wrong mindset. I talked to my employees the wrong way. I didn't have effective communication. I thought that what my highest profitable product was was it's just incorrect. Like my best product is actually this other thing. You [00:42:45] know, I thought this was a great way to make money off the installations.

00:43:00 willing to accept the data that you're given. Like it's not working. I was doing it wrong. And then figure out the solution. What, what do you have to do next?

00:43:15 network. Sometimes the answers are obvious. In my case, I was lucky enough to being somebody that had no, like, let me just put this out there. I don't have a college degree. Okay. I went to high school. I graduated from high school.

00:43:30 go to college. All I got from college was pretty much debt. I had to start working to provide for a family that I wanted. And, but that doesn't mean that just because you didn't go to college, some of the best people that I worked with, they are [00:43:45] some of the most stereotypical Southern country boys you would ever know, but they know how to run their business efficiently.

00:44:00 talking about, Peter, as far as growing, that was the next step in my journey. That actually I left FastSigns, that FastSigns franchise to go work for one of the vendors that I was selling for, because I was selling so many lighted [00:44:15] cabinets and digital displays that they were like, you have got to come work for us.

00:44:30 don't burn bridges. I, you know, I, we left on, you know, good business terms, you know, it made sense that yeah. The franchise wasn't able to offer me what the other company was. Hey, I still referred business. I look, I don't talk bad about [00:44:45] this places I worked for.

00:45:00 were at the time, I think when we came on about 5. 5 million a year gross, and I was not even a salesperson, but I think that that year that I worked there, I sold a million and that was because of the opportunities that were [00:45:15] there.

00:45:30 job, he told me, he gave me this analogy. He's like, Evan, you're like one of those Prairie plains hunters that you see something that's out there like 400 yards away, and you're going to dedicate all your time and your focus [00:45:45] to hit that one target.

00:46:00 in the history of the company. And that's from taking the risk, talking to people, finding solutions, not no, we can't do that.

00:46:15 fantastic experience working in that. And if for no other reason, I love going and talking to the guys in the shop every day, I would walk back there, make sure that they understood like, yeah, I'm on the sales force. Yeah, I'm technically your boss, [00:46:30] but what I want is to figure out.

00:46:45 how can we work together as a team. I, it was. A great opportunity.

00:46:53Bryant Gillespie: #6600cc;">Bryant Gillespie: Yeah. Yeah. No, no, you're good, man. It's uh, like, I, I've just like [00:47:00] listening to you go on your story and it's a, like, you have hit like every type of shop, every position within the shop. Uh, so it like carries through like, [00:47:15] yeah.

00:47:15Evan Zebley: #72b372;">Evan Zebley: So So there's only two more steps, right?

00:47:19Bryant Gillespie: #6600cc;">Bryant Gillespie: this, is that the last shop?

00:47:20Evan Zebley: #72b372;">Evan Zebley: So, uh, well, great shop. I, um, I really, one thing that I still have to learn more about that I feel like affected me at that shop [00:47:30] was, uh, imposter syndrome. Like I said, I feel like I made a very steep rise very quickly. I felt like, you know, no degree. And here I am with guys that have been in the business 20 years and I'm the [00:47:45] business development manager.

00:48:00 I tried kind of telling myself, you know, it's a family owned business.

00:48:15 know, I, I, but I, at the end of the day, I can say that they did feel like family.

00:48:30 possibly imposter syndrome that I felt like I just didn't fit in and an opportunity was presented to me to, uh, take a minute man franchise and get them into wide format and it was in the same market that I'd already [00:48:45] been working in.

00:49:00 how much money we can expect to make in the first year. I had the whole, the whole plan. And we, I went to that. We were on target. We started with roll to roll. Um, we started off site because there wasn't enough room. For us to be at the main location. My goal was I wanted to do [00:49:15] 160k gross that first year.

00:49:30 yes,

00:49:30Bryant Gillespie: #6600cc;">Bryant Gillespie: doing all of it now, like coming into this one, did you like negotiate for equity or like, were you having those conversations because, and I bring this up because like some people in the industry.[00:49:45]

00:50:00 kind of like a limiting factor kind of goes back to that imposter syndrome of like, Hey, I own this shop.

00:50:15 maybe I'm It's like, not so good with employees, but yeah, at this point, are you, are you negotiating for equity in any of these? Like, is your, as your mind on ownership at this

00:50:26Evan Zebley: #72b372;">Evan Zebley: point, yeah, it definitely is.

00:50:30 ended up doing was basically kind of like a, a handsome looking commission package, uh, based off of certain numbers and growth projections. I will tell you that looking at just the numbers, the shop that I left to go do [00:50:45] this. Uh, I used that, their counter offer as my metric for, okay, what am I trying to achieve at this new venture?

00:51:00 was well into six figures. And so I was like, okay, so go into this new thing. Like, here's my base pay. Here's the commission schedule. Is it achievable? Yes. Uh, what I did not account for though, Is that when [00:51:15] you are not the owner, meaning you are not the one that is ultimately making the financial decisions that I found a new trap.

00:51:30 really great worker. He can run five of these machines at the same time. So why don't we just buy more machines and let's make Evan run more stuff. Now, what they did not understand, I could not get them to [00:51:45] understand.

00:52:00 grew a little bit more and we got a direct substrate machine, we got a new facility, we got a flatbed CNC.

00:52:15 had some design experience, had grown up in a print shop with his grandparents, so he knew the work that was required and he caught on, like, immediately I could tell, I could show him everything about the machines, but even then I was, I was on a leash, but this [00:52:30] leash was not a leash of, no, I don't want you to go out and sell to those people or no, I don't want you to go spend money on marketing the leash was.

00:52:45 personnel. So that means my face is out there. The customers know me and then it's up to me to produce everything, but I'm not the one calling the shots. So that's why.

00:52:58Bryant Gillespie: #6600cc;">Bryant Gillespie: And you're, you're doing the selling [00:53:00] and the production and like, yeah, there's only so much of

00:53:04Evan Zebley: #72b372;">Evan Zebley: that to go around, obviously.

00:53:15 take me out of anything to do with production. Like I could be, you know, an overall department manager to review performance. And look at numbers, but really I need to be out selling so that that will really make our company grow.[00:53:30]

00:53:45 work for you for 10%?

00:54:00 tomorrow and then not be able to do it. And that's what was happening. I was being held back to that point. And I was like, okay, it's time to go.

00:54:12Bryant Gillespie: #6600cc;">Bryant Gillespie: I, and that's [00:54:15] like, uh, I see that so often it is like sales is that's, that is the business, right? Like I talked to a lot of owners that like, Hey, I'm not a salesperson. I don't really want to do sales, but [00:54:30] unfortunately, like if you don't have a good sales rep and they're not involved on like a deeper level where they're incentivized to go sell, like, who does that fall to?

00:54:43Evan Zebley: #72b372;">Evan Zebley: or not, you've got to be so right. [00:54:45] And so that goes back to what I said. I never wanted to be a salesperson. I used to legitimately believe that by just having a good product and people receiving that product, that's enough.

00:55:00 successful that you're not worrying about your paycheck this week, because you've got the next two months covered. That's the outside sales force. That's making sure that people are actually going out and grabbing that market, because we know it, all of us here on this podcast, we know it, [00:55:15] that somebody, a church is like, I need a banner.

00:55:30 you have to have somebody going out there to represent you, or else...

00:55:45 so I will put this in point to now for the first time ever. I am doing no manufacturing in house I'm doing some installations because I'm a pretty good vinyl installer and there's money to be made at that [00:56:00] But 100 percent it's pretty much like project management for me.

00:56:15 any of that if I hadn't gone through all the steps that I've been through previously. So I operate as a one man company. The same way I do with like a 40 man team that I have all the same structures in place that I consider, I call it to myself, I call it dummy [00:56:30] proofing it.

00:56:45 got to work on tomorrow? What's your schedule like? You know, I do every single day and I check myself throughout the day Like it's just necessary the same way that I would with an employee.

00:57:00 some motion. So I all right.

00:57:01Bryant Gillespie: #6600cc;">Bryant Gillespie: Hey, no, no. Yeah, I think he was giving you like the like This is it. I

00:57:06Peter Kourounis: #de4a1d;">Peter Kourounis: like it. I think Personally for me this book never leaves my side, you know, so The pages of pages of notes throughout the day, [00:57:15] task lists that never leaves my bedside.

00:57:30 reconcile my bank accounts, you know, from, from October, classify all the expenses, you know, make sure all of our sales reports are accurate.

00:57:45 that Evan, you're, you've experienced the employee side with, I could, you know, I'm going to jump into this business side now. And you're still learning that there's more that to a business owner's life than what employees see, right?

00:58:00 guy's making millions and yet, you know, you're the last person to get paid as an owner. I want to kind of transition this conversation a little bit. I want to learn a little bit about your methods. I, I, I personally, I've, uh, like I've said before, I think that [00:58:15] you're like the exact type of person.

00:58:30 that digitally organically, you know, are you hitting the pavement? I want to hear your methods for those sign shop owners out there that are either listening or viewing in, you know, what is it that they can do to start making, you know, a [00:58:45] monumental leap in sales

00:58:46Evan Zebley: #72b372;">Evan Zebley: as well.

00:59:00 naturally, what I mean is with referral based partnerships. So one thing that I didn't talk about is business networking international. I was the president of a local chapter of BNI, and I, that was where I really [00:59:15] learned the importance of.

00:59:30 But I talk to other businesses all the time because other businesses always buy signs. So when they say, Hey, do you know a good accountant?

00:59:45 business comes in and says, Hey, do you know a sign guy? Like, absolutely. He's right over here. Let me tell you the best sign guy that I know. Now, what that's transitioned into is that now I am, uh, I'm active in three chambers inside of a geographic [01:00:00] area that I'm comfortable providing to.

01:00:15 now. That's for sure. Now in one of these three chambers, I actually hold a board seat and I run a group that we call the leads group and it's a referral based networking group.

01:00:30 them. On Hey, this is how you become referral partners and guess what I have the opportunity for every single one of them to see me not only not only as an expert in referral based networking, but as an expert in signage and they see me every [01:00:45] single meeting and I will tell you that me quote unquote growing naturally.

01:01:00 one request for quote at any event that I go to. And it's not because I'm asking for them. It's because people know, like Evan is the sign guy. So I'm going to ask it. I like my birthday was last month and.

01:01:15 happy birthday, Evan. I was getting messages. Oh, I need a sign. And it was, it was just like, so, and all that came from just, I tried to make myself known when you first start. It's like, who are you? And you're like, Oh, I'm Evan. [01:01:30] I make signs. And then I just said it. Every single time it took at least a year before then everybody was like, Oh, Evan, the sign, I would literally get stopped walking down the street.

01:01:45 I need something for my business. And that came from it. That was the mustache. That was how the mustache actually started. I was like, you know, I need a gimmick. I need something that people were recognizing. Boy, did they recognize it? [01:02:00] But I mean, so that came from, I found, I learned about like, what is my kind of marketing, right?

01:02:15 really want is to have an online. Like web based sales platform, which I still want, but I thought that was going to be the primary source of my income. It's not, it's not at all.

01:02:30 that's where I'm highest chance of converting a sale and the sales happen. If I'm showing up and I'm talking to somebody, I'm not even considering, is this a qualified lead or not, because I want to say this, like I've tracked it. So [01:02:45] far, more than 90 percent of people that I talked to considered leads, they convert.

01:03:00 And that comes from. Mm,

01:03:03Bryant Gillespie: #6600cc;">Bryant Gillespie: it's a key distinction there. Is that, and like most of these customers that you're dealing with, are they. Serious business owners or like, you know, people that are starting new businesses, like, [01:03:15] do you, do you have like a good feel for like what the percentages or

01:03:18Evan Zebley: #72b372;">Evan Zebley: how it breaks out?

01:03:30 been on jobs for a new school that's going up, right. If you consider the cost of that school, like say it's a 10 million school, the signs, like.

01:03:45 always an afterthought as well, exactly. There's not a sign schedule in the blueprints. You got to figure it out yourself. You got to count the number of doors for how many ADA signs you need, all that kind of stuff.

01:04:00 businesses coming in. Who are the players in the community that know every single business that's coming in? So now I know the board of commissioners. I know, like, the developmental authority people. So [01:04:15] when they can see me doing good works, and I'm providing for the customers, and I'm getting good feedback, because I always thought that's very important.

01:04:30 I need these customers to have a good experience. So that they tell the next person, because not only are these businesses and these business partners, my referral partners, but these customers, like these, what you might consider one off customers, even if it was like a [01:04:45] birthday banner, guess what they're telling their aunt Susie that like, Hey, when little Joshua's birthday comes up, I know exactly where you need to get your banner from.

01:05:00 led sign from Evan and you need to do it too. Oh, you know what? We went to our distributor and they said it's going to cost X amount for us to redo our entire space, but Evan did it for Y and it was great experience. And so I've [01:05:15] had enough time in my market now that I've gotten the reputation, but now the effort is constantly exerted on maintaining it.

01:05:30 personally go get it. It's now I have a referral network that is out there and they're also online. We have a Facebook page that's local to our area that somebody will say like. Hey, I'm sorry, I'm opening up a business. Does anybody know a good sign shop and [01:05:45] boom, immediately people are tagging me like Evan, you need to go call Evan, check out Evan, talk to Evan.

01:06:00 I'm not paying these referral partners money, but I am referring their businesses. So I'm maintaining good faith with them.

01:06:08Peter Kourounis: #de4a1d;">Peter Kourounis: I, first of all. I love that you have led a B and I chapter.

01:06:15 that culture just in your tone and inflection here. I mean, it's, I can't imagine being a business owner and running a chapter and introducing new people and having, it's almost like you're networking for 2 companies. And I [01:06:30] honestly, uh. I, I'm thinking back to my chapter leaders over the years, and I just remember how like the active and engaged they were.

01:06:45 join the B and I group. So, I give you a lot of credit there more than you more than, you know, in terms of just your bandwidth, you know, and taking and taking that on is incredible feet. [01:07:00] I want to kind of again, I love your answers and they were exactly what I was hoping for that.

01:07:10Evan Zebley: #72b372;">Evan Zebley: bit

01:07:15

01:07:15Peter Kourounis: #de4a1d;">Peter Kourounis: somebody like this before that just gets it. Uh, I want to hear a little bit more. I want to take that. Okay. So you're your lead generating tactics are a little bit more. I wouldn't, I don't want to say quite unconventional, but I

01:07:29Evan Zebley: #72b372;">Evan Zebley: [01:07:30] would say they're like old school.

01:07:32Peter Kourounis: #de4a1d;">Peter Kourounis: Oh, okay. Old school. Old school.

01:07:45 organizations, clubs, whether it is the BNI group or your chamber of commerce. But I think you've kind of dialed that in a little bit, like you're not traveling very far.

01:08:00 I want to, I want to kind of take that though to the mindset that you have as an owner. So, everybody's doing, everybody does this differently. Um, I have a couple of clients that I talk to weekly about this. And, you [01:08:15] know, this business is not transactional.

01:08:30 You know, we're, this is a, a custom made project. This is a, uh, a project that takes time understanding, it needs communication.

01:08:45 Business owner? I mean, there's a lot of consultative nature to around what we do. We, you know, but I want to ask when you put on that hat and that business owner hat and you walk into a business, you said car washes before.

01:09:00 So I'll use that as an example might be a tough example, but I'd like to see what I like to see your answer here. You know, do you put your how do you put yourself in the limelight? How do you put yourself in the in the eyes of a car wash owner? [01:09:15] Again? It could be a salon. It could be a restaurant. It could be anybody.

01:09:30 value there with that type of owner that again, you don't know their business. You don't know what they do every day. So how do you supplant yourself in that, uh, in

01:09:38Evan Zebley: #72b372;">Evan Zebley: that mindset?

01:09:45 I'll also preface it with again. I don't consider myself. A salesperson necessarily, but I've found out that I can cold call and my method to doing that, like, let's say no referral. I walked into a place, maybe, [01:10:00] maybe it's like a restaurant and I'm having dinner there with some friends.

01:10:15 way, I noticed that like one of your signs out front was like, somebody ran over it. It got hit.

01:10:30 cost. Nobody knows how long it takes to make them, but now, you know, somebody. So thank you very much for a great experience.

01:10:45 I don't know if you remember the movie Homeward Bound. Of course I do. Okay, so the cat is trying to teach the dog how to catch a crayfish. And he's like, how do you get it? How do you do it?

01:11:00 don't want it. Just like, and he's like, I don't want it. I don't want it. And then it bites him and it's like, ah, so it's kind of, it's a, I almost feel like a universal truth that in any kind of relationship, including [01:11:15] the like salesperson customer relationship, you've got to act like you are fine without this sale.

01:11:30 confidence. You are comfortable talking to that person. I did not used to be that way. I promise you, I used to not at the end of a conversation with a potential customer, I wouldn't say, Hey, can I quote that for you?

01:11:45 uh, I, I mean, it's so important it's, and especially when you talk to, I think some people, again, we were talking about imposter syndrome. I think some people sell themselves too short. They think that they're talking to a customer and that they're down here and the customer is up [01:12:00] here and oh, this, this huge successful business, like, uh, please, sir, just, you know, if you need anything, call me like, no, they're a business person.

01:12:15 feel like I can provide that. Would you mind giving me the opportunity? I've never had anybody tell me no. I've never had anybody say... I love the ask. Nobody has ever said no. Like, we're not going to give you a chance.[01:12:30]

01:12:30Peter Kourounis: #de4a1d;">Peter Kourounis: just skyrocketed to one of my favorite guests at the very top of

01:12:33Evan Zebley: #72b372;">Evan Zebley: the

01:12:34Peter Kourounis: #de4a1d;">Peter Kourounis: list. Better than Maggie's quote. You know, I love the way you asked for the opportunity. I love that. I can't, I can't, I can honestly say I've [01:12:45] never done that. Uh, and I don't know many people that have done it. My, my old business partners don't do it.

01:13:00 podcast episode, you know what I mean? Like, that's got to be considered to, to be the title here. Like. Asking for the sale. I have never heard anybody genuinely just

01:13:11Bryant Gillespie: #6600cc;">Bryant Gillespie: asking for the asking for the opportunity [01:13:15] to quote.

01:13:16Evan Zebley: #72b372;">Evan Zebley: Yeah. That's it. I mean, I get it. If you're 100 percent in a sales position, you're not going to make every sale. It's not going to happen. We know that, but. Having the opportunity is important. [01:13:30] It's, you know, that old adage that, you know, you miss a hundred percent of the shots you don't take. So it's like, it's your job.

01:13:45 employee's paycheck, you know, whatever. Take the shot. It's your responsibility. It's it, it's your job to do it. But I think once I got past that, that was cool. I still have a little bit of like, [01:14:00] the reason that I network is because I even still feel like there are levels, but now hanging around these people all the time has made me feel a lot more comfortable about like, okay, I, I am normalizing.

01:14:15 like, look, Oh, you know, Hey, commissioner. So, and so, Hey, that birthday I told you about. All three mayors of the local three cities that I network in, they're all happy birthday, Evan, you know? So it's like,

01:14:28Bryant Gillespie: #6600cc;">Bryant Gillespie: That's such an important thing [01:14:30] for me of like, yeah, I heard you going on about, like, Hey, the, the BNI group, like you, you explicitly cultivated, like, I know these are going to be business owners.

01:14:45 That's probably 80, 90 percent of it is being there and being

01:14:49Peter Kourounis: #de4a1d;">Peter Kourounis: around more than that. It's fostering new relationships. You know, like, I bet you it's the same people. Not always the same people showing up to those meetings, but the same familiar faces.

01:15:00 presents is, hey, we're here for a reason. You know, you may not have a need this week, but maybe it's 6 weeks from now and I'm getting a chance to get in front of you and you're getting a chance to get in front of me. Right? I mean, I'm sure you're in in that in that V and I group. You got.

01:15:15 Plumbers and insurance agents and all sorts of things. And, you know, when the need arises, you have a go to, you have a go to. It's like, you have your guy, you have your guy. And right now, Evan, you are my guy.

01:15:29Evan Zebley: #72b372;">Evan Zebley: [01:15:30] Yeah,

01:15:30Bryant Gillespie: #6600cc;">Bryant Gillespie: well, I think we've definitely gone a little

01:15:32Evan Zebley: #72b372;">Evan Zebley: longer than we intended to here. I'm sorry, I talk way too much. No,

01:15:35Bryant Gillespie: #6600cc;">Bryant Gillespie: no, no, it's. This has been a great conversation. I'll agree with Peter that, you know, I think you, you've been one of my favorite guests so far as well. Thank you. Thank you. Um, [01:15:45] yeah, we kind of, we kind of usually in these with a, like a transition to the future.

01:15:54Evan Zebley: #72b372;">Evan Zebley: Um, I've got, uh, two next steps kind of buying to be step [01:16:00] number two. Um, and that's either taking on some of the manufacturing because. I'm not 100 percent getting everything that I want from my vendors and, uh, also continuing to build on the success of [01:16:15] vending my sales by means of having online sales and the main purpose of that would be to take items that, you know, yard signs, banners, high margin, low costs, pass through things that [01:16:30] even if I can make something 20 a day profit.

01:16:45 banner, you know, it's, it's worth it to give me some relief to sort of automate that a little bit. And then, plus that also has a lot to do. We haven't talked about this, my, the company, since my name is Evan Zebley, then my company is EZ signs.[01:17:00]

01:17:14Bryant Gillespie: #6600cc;">Bryant Gillespie: I gotcha. [01:17:15] Yeah. Uh, iron. A lot of irons in the fire. Um, are you, like, are you, are you looking to, like, with your online sales, say, like, just to step into that for a moment, because it's a very interesting topic for me [01:17:30] and one that I see like a lot of owners want to step into.

01:17:45 audience or is it more of just like, Hey, I've got my area that I serve. I may not be able to come out and talk to you for a hundred dollar banner or, you know, like, if you need something quickly, like just log on.

01:18:00 national audience, or is this just like a, a nice way to, you know, funnel some of that other smaller stuff into a, a more efficient

01:18:10Evan Zebley: #72b372;">Evan Zebley: queue or flow, I guess. My main goal is to allow myself more [01:18:15] time so that I can go, uh, work on other, uh, more profitable sales. So it is.

01:18:30 just need to send it somewhere. And if they send it to a custom signed shop that they have to go through a salesperson, it takes three days to get a proof back or whatever.

01:18:45 for my customers. And I do want to let it grow. Naturally, I believe it will grow, but that's going to be again through referrals. I'll, uh, one of them, two of my favorite sales that I made while I was at fast signs, it [01:19:00] was, I was at fast signs when COVID happened.

01:19:15 do? I was like. We're going to make some social distancing signage. The thing that everybody does now, right? Well, there were a couple of people inventing fire at the same time.

01:19:30 let it be known. That's going to help your operations. And immediately I had local companies, manufacturing companies. They were like, Hey, this is great. We want you to make it for our company here, our company in Pennsylvania.

01:19:45 I have connections with the managers of those operations and they're like, where did we get these from last time? Who does this stuff? Oh yeah, Evan does it. Yeah. So

01:19:57Bryant Gillespie: #6600cc;">Bryant Gillespie: it's just naturally

01:19:59Evan Zebley: #72b372;">Evan Zebley: [01:20:00] spreads. Yeah. Great. That's right. And I believe that I really, I believe this and it's anecdotal, but it is true for me is that you just.

01:20:15 bad about other science shops ever, ever do I do that? I might defend myself sometimes, but I have to, but yeah, be kind to everybody that you can be kind to, and just do the job [01:20:30] that you say you're going to do. Just do it. Fulfill your promises, never over promise and under deliver.

01:20:43Bryant Gillespie: #6600cc;">Bryant Gillespie: Great, man. I look forward to [01:20:45] seeing like the, the online solution that you come up with. And also like, I want to hear back with where you land on like the manufacturing side, because we we've got, uh, I'll see if I can find the episode for you.

01:21:00 like, Hey, should I be doing manufacturing? Should we get into that? Should we not, you know, very interesting topic and you know, it could go. Either way, uh, more of like a personal preference thing as well, whether you want the headache involved with that as

01:21:14Evan Zebley: #72b372;">Evan Zebley: well.

01:21:15 But if I, if I could find the right person to run it for me, that would be the key. There you go.

01:21:20Bryant Gillespie: #6600cc;">Bryant Gillespie: Excellent. Well, uh, Evan, I appreciate you joining us again. I think 1 of our favorite episodes for sure. Uh, Pete, any [01:21:30] parting shots before we.

01:21:33Peter Kourounis: #de4a1d;">Peter Kourounis: Uh, you took the wind from my sails there. Yeah. Evan, thank you for being here.

01:21:45 day if we did it, but, um, it was a pleasure meeting you. And I, and I do look forward to seeing you here on the show

01:21:50Evan Zebley: #72b372;">Evan Zebley: again. Wow. Thank you very much, guys, for the opportunity. And, uh, thanks for, uh, hosting me in my car.

01:22:00

01:22:00Bryant Gillespie: #6600cc;">Bryant Gillespie: It's all good. You got to get done work in the office, man. That's all good. Thanks. All right. We'll see you. Thanks. All right. Thank you. That's the episode. I hope you enjoyed it. I'd like to give one final shout out to our sponsor. GCI Digital Printing. [01:22:15] Grand format printer to the trade. GCI is not your average print shop.

01:22:30 They'll have it done every time. No other vendor will go to the lengths that GCI does to ensure you're a satisfied customer. To hear more about their approach to business, hop back into the archives to episode 9, where the guys and [01:22:45] I interview owner T.

01:23:00 them out at PrintGCI. com.

01:23:04Evan Zebley: #72b372;">Evan Zebley: If you liked this episode, make sure you hit subscribe to get all the latest episodes. And check out our website, BetterSignShop.

01:23:15 tools on growing your shop. Thanks for listening.

Can I Quote That For You? // Evan Zebley of EZ Signs

GCI Digital Imaging