Will it be fun? // Dan Sawatzky of Imagination Corporation

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Will it be fun? // Dan Sawatzky of Imagination Corporation

Tue Oct 17th 2023/67 mins 55 secs

On this episode

Founder of Imagination Corporation

Peter Kourounis

The Sign Shop Yoda

Bryant Gillespie

Founder at Better Sign Shop

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In this episode...
00:00 Intro
02:20 Welcome Dan
03:10 About Dan
05:10 Ordinary stuff
06:20 Starting shop in high school
08:10 Imagination Corporation, today vs when it started
12:15 Looking at things differently.
14:20 Test for customers (5 Questions)
18:10 Deviating from the questions
19:54 Owning only half a percent of the business
20:49 Difference of opinion
22:23 Different Process
24:10 Types of Projects
31:50 How much does location matter?
33:20 Contacting customers
36:40 Scope of Projects
38:40 Building Experiences
40:40 Pieces of Advice
48:15 Family Business
56:30 Inner working of the Business
01:01:40 Future for dan
01:06:30 Outro

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Transcripts are automatically generated with AI and may contain errors.

00:00:15 workflow, growth, and more. You're listening to the better sign shop podcast with your hosts, Peter Kourounis, Michael Riley, and Brian [00:00:30] Gillespie.

00:00:37Bryant Gillespie: #6600cc;">Bryant Gillespie: Before we jump into the episode, I'd like to give a shout out to our sponsor, GCI digital printing, grand format [00:00:45] printer to the trade. GCI is not your average print shop. They pride themselves on providing you a fast, stress free experience when outsourcing. Their no excuses mindset means no matter the job, they'll have it done [00:01:00] every time.

00:01:15 TJ Bedacht about top tier customer experience. If you're looking for a high quality trade printer for banners, mesh, coroplast, and more, TJ and his crew will have your back.

00:01:30 Check them out at PrintGCI. com.

00:01:34Bryant Gillespie: #6600cc;">Bryant Gillespie: Welcome back to another edition of the better sign shop podcast as always. Well, not as always today, I'm flying solo Bryant here. [00:01:45] Uh, I've got an extra special guest is somebody that I have looked up to for a long time in the industry.

00:02:00 um, Very inspirational for me. So, really excited to chat with our guest, Mr.

00:02:05Bryant Gillespie: #6600cc;">Bryant Gillespie: Dan Sawatzky of Imagination Corporation. Uh, this should be a great conversation. Uh, I hate that [00:02:15] Peter and Michael are not here. Uh, They're just going to miss out on the fun.

00:02:30 we are joined by our extra special guest and hero of mine and Peter's, uh, Michael, I don't know where you're at, man, but you're missing out. We've got Mr. Dan Sawatsky, legend in the sign industry.

00:02:45 really don't think you need an introduction here, but, uh, I just wanted to say It's been very inspirational for me over the years, reading all of your magazine articles, looking at your work, studying it. Uh, so it's really a [00:03:00] treat to have you on to the podcast. Thanks for joining us.

00:03:02Dan Sawatzky: #72b372;">Dan Sawatzky: Thank you so much. So I'm

00:03:05Peter Kourounis: #de4a1d;">Peter Kourounis: sure that there are going to be a lot of listeners out there that know who you are, Dan, that know your work, that have seen your work. But [00:03:15] for those of our listeners that don't want, don't you tell us a little bit about yourself and your business and your background.

00:03:21Dan Sawatzky: #72b372;">Dan Sawatzky: Okay, I've been in the sign business practically forever.

00:03:30 I lived in a very small town and my brother entered a competition to paint windows for for an event and he won 15. This was back in the late sixties, 15 was [00:03:45] a fortune. Something that took my dad, um, a better part of a day to earn. And, uh, we could do it in an hour. So it was like, Holy cow.

00:04:00 sample book and I hitchhiked to town because I was too young to drive. And, uh, sold, uh, windows in that first year I made 600 bucks after school while I was still in grade 10 and it was, uh, I couldn't [00:04:15] think of a better way to make a living than, than do that.

00:04:19Bryant Gillespie: #6600cc;">Bryant Gillespie: at 14,

00:04:21Dan Sawatzky: #72b372;">Dan Sawatzky: that's amazing. And it pulled it off again the next year and made double that or triple that. I can't remember. It was a long time ago. [00:04:30] And then I started a sign shop still in high school. Uh, made horrible science and, uh, really horrible, um, and right from the start, I wasn't satisfied with. I mean, I did my 1st [00:04:45] truck and the 2nd door on the truck absolutely bored me.

00:05:00 don't have to sell it that way. They, uh, they make jigsaws to fix that. So, we were cutting our stuff out and layering it right from the very start. And that's all we've sold is, I've never sold, or sold very, very few ordinary [00:05:15] signs.

00:05:18Bryant Gillespie: #6600cc;">Bryant Gillespie: I don't think I've ever seen anything that you've done that ordinary

00:05:22Dan Sawatzky: #72b372;">Dan Sawatzky: and that's no, I mean, I mean, I asked when I did my workshops, I asked people, what percentage of your work would you be happy to see in a trade [00:05:30] magazine or enter into a competition?

00:05:32Dan Sawatzky: #72b372;">Dan Sawatzky: And most people are happy with 2%, 5%.

00:05:45 So that's what we did. That from the start and people say, Oh, that's cool. You can say no to, to ordinary stuff now, but I've always said no to ordinary stuff. And you know, I mean, you asked Dan and Nelly, what do you do if a [00:06:00] customer comes to you with a horrible idea that his nephew drew?

00:06:15 walk away because tomorrow you're known for exactly what you do today. So. I don't want to be the bottom feeder. I want to be the top cutting edge.

00:06:26Bryant Gillespie: #6600cc;">Bryant Gillespie: that makes sense. So, you, in high school, you started your [00:06:30] shop, you said you made some horrible signs. Like, what was, what was, do any of those projects stick out to you? Like, what was, what was the horrible sign that you were like, okay, like, this is not where we want to be. Like, this is actually what we want to do.

00:06:44Dan Sawatzky: #72b372;">Dan Sawatzky: Well, I mean, everything [00:06:45] was hand drawn in those days. And, I mean, I was broke. I had no money, you know, like every kid. And, and the layouts weren't that good. The brushwork was horrible. They were always done in a hurry because I was always in a hurry and, uh, [00:07:00] the science reflected that. But, but as I, you know, we try and raise the bar with every single project.

00:07:14Bryant Gillespie: #6600cc;">Bryant Gillespie: Was [00:07:15] there, was there any like particular project when you were first starting out that was like, okay, like we've raised the bar here and, and like what that it does, are there any that stick out to you when you first got started that were like, Hey, we've taken a big leap here.

00:07:30 And what that project was like.

00:07:31Dan Sawatzky: #72b372;">Dan Sawatzky: Well, every single project, uh, I mean, you become known for as a creative problem solver and so every project quickly becomes out of your reach. I mean, every project, even to this day, we bid project [00:07:45] not having a clue how we're going to pull it off. Um, but we always do. We don't always make money, but we always pull it off.

00:07:54Bryant Gillespie: #6600cc;">Bryant Gillespie: Yeah. That's the curse of the sign maker, right? Yeah. We can do that. We'll

00:07:59Dan Sawatzky: #72b372;">Dan Sawatzky: figure [00:08:00] it out. Yeah. I mean, I mean, it used to be this sign shop is what that's where you went. If you wanted something creative, if you wanted a parade float, if you wanted, you know, something unusual to make your business stand out.

00:08:15 does, which is sad. Agreed. Agreed.

00:08:19Bryant Gillespie: #6600cc;">Bryant Gillespie: Uh, so, like, tell us about Imagination Corporation today. Like, what does the business look like today versus back when you first started?

00:08:27Dan Sawatzky: #72b372;">Dan Sawatzky: I mean, Imagination Corporation started out very small.

00:08:30 was just my wife and I. She helped out. And we would do stuff. My son Peter worked with me since he was little. I mean, Imagination Corporation, my journey has been, uh, various. In this big [00:08:45] circle, it's it, I started out doing window splashes, went to fine art. Um, I worked with some 40 galleries and stuff from there.

00:09:00 I've done 125 all across Canada and the US. And then I discovered, uh, as, as my quest to do wilder things, the theme park industry has been a huge part of our. Our repertoire [00:09:15] and the tourism industry because you can sell more creative work there.

00:09:30 and why do they bypass you to phone me and I'm a thousand miles away? Is because that's what I'm known for. And I think more people could do the creative stuff if they, if they just put their heart into it.

00:09:41Dan Sawatzky: #72b372;">Dan Sawatzky: Start with your own sign. Your, your, the, every [00:09:45] sign shop should have an award winning sign up front. You know, the best they can do. Even if it takes them five years to make it. In their spare time. There's no reason why you shouldn't have that kind of sign. And if you walk the walk yourself, [00:10:00] people want to buy into that success.

00:10:15 if they happen to drive by a sign.

00:10:16Dan Sawatzky: #72b372;">Dan Sawatzky: Now they type in creative sign and chances are mine will pop up or dimensional sign.

00:10:25Bryant Gillespie: #6600cc;">Bryant Gillespie: again, with the internet, it's become easier to share

00:10:28Dan Sawatzky: #72b372;">Dan Sawatzky: your work. I believe [00:10:30] so. I mean, in, in 19, no, 2008, when that 2009, the big downturn, uh, it affected us too. And there was a ton of many, many weeks I went out to the shop and there was [00:10:45] literally no work. So, so what do you do?

00:11:00 with the intent of, of when, when things improve, I'll have the samples to sell work because how do I describe what I did? Like, it's impossible to describe what I did. Yeah. I gotta show people.

00:11:15 samples, I mean, I sent them into competitions, I sent them to Sinecraft, you probably read articles on them. Uh, you know, a lot of the work that is featured in the magazines. Uh, is stuff that we've done as samples, um, or

00:11:29Bryant Gillespie: #6600cc;">Bryant Gillespie: even just the [00:11:30] pieces that you were doing on your own home on like your CNC router were like mind blowing for me.

00:11:35Dan Sawatzky: #72b372;">Dan Sawatzky: Yeah, again, I, our site shop is in our backyard. I've always worked from home. That's a conscious choice. I made. Before kids even came along and, [00:11:45] and, uh, it's been a great choice. So I'm, I'm in a residential area. I have residential zoning. How do you, and so the, the city says I can only put a very small sign up front, but it doesn't, the city didn't [00:12:00] tell me what kind of house I can build.

00:12:15 what I do, they know where I've done my work. How

00:12:17Peter Kourounis: #de4a1d;">Peter Kourounis: tremendous is that? That's like, that's the definition in my book?

00:12:24Dan Sawatzky: #72b372;">Dan Sawatzky: Yeah, I mean, I

00:12:25Peter Kourounis: #de4a1d;">Peter Kourounis: mean, if I could say if I could put a title, I mean, you probably have a [00:12:30] different one. But if when it went, when, when the good Lord above calls your name, I would put on your tombstone that quote living outside the box. Was a lifestyle to me, to me, that's exactly that's exactly what I've learned from you over the [00:12:45] years is how to look at things differently.

00:13:00 had this vision so beyond the typical sign shop owner. I don't even, I would, I would, I would probably go as far as to say, you're not even a sign shop anymore.

00:13:12Dan Sawatzky: #72b372;">Dan Sawatzky: have been. I still consider myself a sign [00:13:15] shop, but not an ordinary sign. And, and it, I mean, it's interesting. I, I don't believe I can sell my work either in terms of if you, if I, I don't do cold calls. I've tried in the past. They don't work for me because I can't [00:13:30] sell you something unless you want.

00:13:45 or my yard is full of people. And if 100 90 of them will go away with nothing. I'll send them away.

00:14:00 Or it's, you know, and they know it's not Walmart. It's not going to be cheap. Everything is custom, you know, and everything is obviously expensive. So 90 percent will price themselves off my yard immediately. And, and then [00:14:15] 10, 10 of those people will, I'll talk to in depth, maybe give them a little tour of the shop, my studio.

00:14:30 actually, uh, qualify our customers with five questions. Everyone who gets to that, into that small 10 or 4%, we actually have a test for them. They don't know they're being tested, but [00:14:45] I'm interviewing. Sit down in my studio and let's have a chat.

00:15:00 or prospective customer, preferably my son and I do it together. And then, uh, we send them away and say, we'll call you in a few days and let you know if you are a customer.

00:15:12Bryant Gillespie: #6600cc;">Bryant Gillespie: I love that. You guys are like totally flipping this [00:15:15] script

00:15:16Dan Sawatzky: #72b372;">Dan Sawatzky: and the five questions are, and the customer doesn't know what the questions are. This is questions we asking. Inside the studio. Wait, are they the same five questions? Yes, they are. Would you like to share them with us here today? Yes, sure. I'd [00:15:30] love to.

00:15:40Peter Kourounis: #de4a1d;">Peter Kourounis: to be Wait, is Will it be fun and will it make you laugh? Is

00:15:44Dan Sawatzky: #72b372;">Dan Sawatzky: that [00:15:45] the Same question. Same question. Okay. Okay. Is it going to be fun for us and our staff? You know, are we going to love this job?

00:16:00 do the job, they're not my customer. It doesn't mean I ignore my customer. It means that I have creative control. You've come to me as an expert. Please trust me. If you don't trust me, you're not my customer. Go away.

00:16:15 and you insist on your nephew art, thank you so much for coming in. I'll see you around. And you have to be that brutal. Because if you put out a piece of crap, you're, that's what you're known for immediately.

00:16:27Bryant Gillespie: #6600cc;">Bryant Gillespie: Let's say, yeah, you don't want to slap your name on it. [00:16:30]

00:16:30Dan Sawatzky: #72b372;">Dan Sawatzky: Third question, do we have time?

00:16:45 Please come when you have more time. And I have more time because I'm not going to, I don't work overtime in my shop and neither do my staff.

00:17:00 You know, go get a temporary sign, pay a deposit and get on my list. Cause that's the only way to get on my list is, is a sizable deposit.

00:17:11Bryant Gillespie: #6600cc;">Bryant Gillespie: Nice. And you guys are booking into 2025 already. [00:17:15]

00:17:15Dan Sawatzky: #72b372;">Dan Sawatzky: We're not full in 2024, but some projects already going into 2025 and we're designing into 2026.

00:17:22Bryant Gillespie: #6600cc;">Bryant Gillespie: Amazing. All right. So

00:17:24Dan Sawatzky: #72b372;">Dan Sawatzky: what's the next question? Fourth question. Is the project good for us? Will it [00:17:30] raise our bar? Will it improve our reputation? Cause we know it's good for the customer. It's going to bring them a ton of business. He'll make hopefully a ton of money. Based on the sign we do for him, but is the project good for us?

00:17:45

00:17:46Bryant Gillespie: #6600cc;">Bryant Gillespie: and do you physically ask them that question or like

00:17:48Dan Sawatzky: #72b372;">Dan Sawatzky: these are questions? Okay, based on the interview in turn. I'll beat around that but in turn, okay This is questions Pete and I ask each other gotcha. And the last question we ask is is there [00:18:00] enough money?

00:18:15 from the start, because it quotes a quote.

00:18:20Peter Kourounis: #de4a1d;">Peter Kourounis: I have, I have 2 follow up questions to that. The 1st 1 is ever since you put that policy in place, those 5 questions, have you ever the 1st question is, have you [00:18:30] ever deviated from those answers?

00:18:32Dan Sawatzky: #72b372;">Dan Sawatzky: Yes. And we read it every single time.

00:18:36Peter Kourounis: #de4a1d;">Peter Kourounis: Yes. And you've regretted it every single time.

00:18:45 Is it the interaction with the customer? Did it not meet those

00:18:48Dan Sawatzky: #72b372;">Dan Sawatzky: qualifications? Either I didn't make money or because I wanted the job too bad and I bid it too low, or it won't satisfy me. And I knew I could have done better.

00:19:00 And that drives me nuts.

00:19:02Peter Kourounis: #de4a1d;">Peter Kourounis: And you thought you could have did better. And that drives you nuts.

00:19:05Bryant Gillespie: #6600cc;">Bryant Gillespie: Was it, was it just like a low Lear project or was it just like the, the clients kind of demands?

00:19:14Dan Sawatzky: #72b372;">Dan Sawatzky: Yeah. [00:19:15] I mean, I do a lot of the sales or first initiation and we, we ask these questions and then we'll do a run at the design where I do a run at the design with Peter looking on my shoulder or my daughter back looking on my shoulder.[00:19:30]

00:19:45 is yes, then we don't even pitch the lesser design We only pitch the cool one because most times we go into a job.

00:20:00

00:20:00Peter Kourounis: #de4a1d;">Peter Kourounis: Okay. So this is my second question. You mentioned your son. I would assume your son is a partner in this business with you.

00:20:07Dan Sawatzky: #72b372;">Dan Sawatzky: He's he's the majority owner. Now

00:20:10Peter Kourounis: #de4a1d;">Peter Kourounis: he's the majority owner now.

00:20:14Dan Sawatzky: #72b372;">Dan Sawatzky: We're going to have to [00:20:15] go here soon. He's sitting right beside him here. I don't half a percent.

00:20:21Peter Kourounis: #de4a1d;">Peter Kourounis: You own a half of percent in the business. Why only a half? Okay, I have so many

00:20:29Dan Sawatzky: #72b372;">Dan Sawatzky: questions, [00:20:30] but let me ask you this. I'm 69 years old. I don't need to own it. And man, besides he's better than I am at everything.

00:20:45 boss when you're little? And if he, if he, if he's not good, it's my fault. I screwed up. Okay.

00:20:52Bryant Gillespie: #6600cc;">Bryant Gillespie: That's the ultimate ownership mentality right there.

00:20:55Peter Kourounis: #de4a1d;">Peter Kourounis: Has there ever been a time where you and Pete saw a [00:21:00] project differently and had a difference of

00:21:02Dan Sawatzky: #72b372;">Dan Sawatzky: opinion every single

00:21:03Peter Kourounis: #de4a1d;">Peter Kourounis: time?

00:21:07Dan Sawatzky: #72b372;">Dan Sawatzky: He's the owner I can defer to him. Okay, so it's

00:21:10Peter Kourounis: #de4a1d;">Peter Kourounis: just the amount of equity. There's no creative

00:21:13Dan Sawatzky: #72b372;">Dan Sawatzky: there Oh, I mean [00:21:15] we argue and sometimes I say look at the customer won't you know, like we just did a design for a mini golf Uh, that was the owner wanted a logging theme and Peter pitched robot dinosaur logging theme, [00:21:30] which was very cool.

00:21:45 sadly didn't take it, which happens. I mean, I've got. Full of designs that have not yet sold and the keyword is not yet because we can repitch it just

00:21:55Peter Kourounis: #de4a1d;">Peter Kourounis: in a different application different type of idea.

00:21:58Dan Sawatzky: #72b372;">Dan Sawatzky: Yeah, there'll be a [00:22:00] customer that that is braver. So,

00:22:02Peter Kourounis: #de4a1d;">Peter Kourounis: what do you call that? You call that your, your

00:22:04Dan Sawatzky: #72b372;">Dan Sawatzky: secret stash? Yeah, we got, we got, there's a lot of secrets that The dream stash, the imagination station. I [00:22:15] mean, I'll never get to build all the crazy ideas in my head. And nor will Peter, but we build a lot of

00:22:22Bryant Gillespie: #6600cc;">Bryant Gillespie: them.

00:22:30 do you do the concept drawings before? They do a deposit or like, Hey, we think this could be a fit and like, Hey, you got to the deposit before we even do

00:22:42Dan Sawatzky: #72b372;">Dan Sawatzky: the teaser. But, but I explained to the [00:22:45] customer that, that an idea like design work needs to be paid for before I do it.

00:23:00 drawing. It's mine. If you want it, you have to pay for it. Gotcha. And then one drawing, I mean, most times our design contracts are in the tens of thousands of dollars.

00:23:15 low res drawing. And then, and then once they pay for design, they'll get their 15 or 20 that's part of the package. Gotcha.

00:23:24Bryant Gillespie: #6600cc;">Bryant Gillespie: Gotcha. It's such a totally different process than like the [00:23:30] average sign shop, which is why I was so excited for this conversation because like you, you take the, the average model and like totally flip it

00:23:38Dan Sawatzky: #72b372;">Dan Sawatzky: on its head.

00:23:45 you know, it's a small job for us is, you know, just like 10 grand. So if you want to pay 10 grand for a house number, that's fine, but nobody does because that's silly. But we'll, if you want us to design your house and do all the [00:24:00] fancy crazy, you know, and house numbers part of it, and there's a package that's, you know, 50, 000, let's stop and, and the house number won't come in at 10, 000, it'll come in at, you know, a thousand bucks as part of a bigger package.[00:24:15]

00:24:15Bryant Gillespie: #6600cc;">Bryant Gillespie: So, like, what type of projects are you guys? Doing most now? Is it still like theme parks and, and like

00:24:23Dan Sawatzky: #72b372;">Dan Sawatzky: tours and stuff forth? Theme are, yeah. Theme parks, uh, are a big part of it. And, um, I, I was a keynote [00:24:30] speaker at a theme park convention five years ago, and in the, and this was in Florida. There was, I don't, there was 40,000 people that convention.

00:24:45 okay, cool. Come to your farm, you know, here's my fee. And he said, fine, we need, you need to book three days plus travel time. So it was five days in Nebraska. Turns out this firm has seized, uh, upwards of they're [00:25:00] gonna hit half a million guests pretty quick in six weeks on an annual basis.

00:25:15 share, I just spoke at another conference, a farm, tourism farm conference in the spring. And we now have, I think, 15 farms that we're doing design work for. Wow. And is it just like

00:25:28Bryant Gillespie: #6600cc;">Bryant Gillespie: a, [00:25:30] like they, like a tourism farm?

00:25:33Dan Sawatzky: #72b372;">Dan Sawatzky: you know. Oh,

00:25:34Bryant Gillespie: #6600cc;">Bryant Gillespie: oh, gotcha. Oh, okay. Gotcha.

00:25:36Dan Sawatzky: #72b372;">Dan Sawatzky: Okay. Makes sense. And the apple cider is and all that kind of stuff.

00:25:39Bryant Gillespie: #6600cc;">Bryant Gillespie: Uh, gotcha. Yeah. Okay. Like corn mazes and pumpkin patches.

00:25:44Dan Sawatzky: #72b372;">Dan Sawatzky: Okay. [00:25:45] I mean, that's a business I didn't know existed five years ago.

00:25:49Bryant Gillespie: #6600cc;">Bryant Gillespie: Yeah, yeah, those are increasingly popular in my area in the backwoods of West Virginia.

00:26:00

00:26:01Dan Sawatzky: #72b372;">Dan Sawatzky: So and then the theme park industry and then tourism industry is big for us too. You know, resorts and things

00:26:10Bryant Gillespie: #6600cc;">Bryant Gillespie: when you weren't quite as well known as you are now, like, [00:26:15] did it, like, what was different, I guess, like, did you have these questions initially, or this is like the model that you've like crafted over the lifetime in the industry.

00:26:26Dan Sawatzky: #72b372;">Dan Sawatzky: When I started doing workshops, I put those, you know, articulated those [00:26:30] questions that we, we've always done that, but not in a formal sense or, or what are the questions, um, you know. But we've always had that sort of that test. Yeah, I mean, it's, it goes back to when I did murals. [00:26:45] You know, how do you become famous for murals?

00:27:00 available in terms of opportunity. And I said, people are going to come to this town because of the murals.

00:27:15 000 people every year and very, very quickly. And the first question they had, because there was like 30 murals through town, which I did seven, is who did the murals? And can I talk to them?

00:27:30 Virginia want to come, you know, drop in and, and, uh, say, hey, this would go good in my town. So who do we talk to? And they would end up on my doorstep. And, and I would take the time to give them a tour of the town and they went, [00:27:45] Hey, would you want to come to our town and, and sell this idea?

00:28:00 artwork for you. Uh, and then if you do a limited print of this, you can sell them and pay for the mural. And so a month later, they'd have limited print and, and I'd be in their town doing the first historical mural in their town.

00:28:15 three or four murals because they know who I am. And then, so now I'm, I'm known in West Virginia. People go there and say, who did that? Well, here's the guy in British Columbia. So I mean, you know, in 10 years and did 125 murals. [00:28:30] It's just a exploded.

00:28:31Bryant Gillespie: #6600cc;">Bryant Gillespie: Yeah. Yeah. See that makes so much sense because you like you're helping them almost like finance in a way of like, Hey, here's the artwork.

00:28:45 discount it. I'm worth. This is going to bring 10 times that to you guys in tourism. Here's. Here's a way to pay for this, without you guys being out

00:28:54Dan Sawatzky: #72b372;">Dan Sawatzky: of pocket for it. I mean, to be successful is not hard. You just gotta wear out lots of running shoes.[00:29:00]

00:29:15 son's project next door. It's, you know, it's... It could be done in anything. You just got to do it better than anybody else.

00:29:25Bryant Gillespie: #6600cc;">Bryant Gillespie: the, what's the hazelnut in like a bed and

00:29:28Dan Sawatzky: #72b372;">Dan Sawatzky: breakfast on [00:29:30] steroids, I mean, it started, uh, my son and his wife, when they got married eight years ago or nine years ago or something, they, they wanted to stay in a castle, so they had to go to Europe on the plane home. They went, [00:29:45] we can build a castle.

00:30:00 Hobbit. So we can build a Hobbit home. We call it the Underhill. And, and then there's a third suite. So, okay, well now let's build this thing and it's being built.

00:30:15 70, 80 percent of the way, which is still a long ways. And so every few years we take on a project, our house, I built a mini golf back in 2000, and now we're building the end, which we call our stupid project is there is no [00:30:30] budget. There's no limit to creativity.

00:30:45 Cause we squeeze it in between our other jobs. There's 4, 000 people signing up. Ready to book a room and we don't know when it's going to open.

00:31:00 does that project do? Is that, that has already been featured magazine. That's already won awards. It's already, and it's not finished. So it raises our bar exponentially.

00:31:10Bryant Gillespie: #6600cc;">Bryant Gillespie: Right. And it's your own project.

00:31:13Dan Sawatzky: #72b372;">Dan Sawatzky: showcase. I mean, it's, [00:31:15] I, I've seen up to five and it's right next door to our house. So when people stop, they just go googa and stupid in front of our place and take all these pictures and they post them to their Facebook page. And what are they doing? They're [00:31:30] advertising us.

00:31:32Bryant Gillespie: #6600cc;">Bryant Gillespie: Hey, do you take pictures of them with their jaws just wide open?

00:31:45 in your driveway, people with their mouths hanging up and taking pictures of all that.

00:31:49Dan Sawatzky: #72b372;">Dan Sawatzky: Yeah. I mean, we're in a dinky little town where, you know, we're only 3, 500 people in this town.

00:31:57Bryant Gillespie: #6600cc;">Bryant Gillespie: Yeah. And that was, that was one of the talking points that we had, [00:32:00] right? So how much does location matter for your

00:32:03Dan Sawatzky: #72b372;">Dan Sawatzky: success? Location is absolutely critical and not at all necessary. Now we are on a road that goes up to a lake that sees a million visitors a year. So [00:32:15] that's intentional, but at the same token, I don't necessarily sell signs to those people.

00:32:30 Uh, silly you. Yes, you could. Uh, number one is build a webpage that showcases what you can do. It can be samples. It can be drawings. Uh, it doesn't have to be a hundred pages.

00:32:45 that's what you become known for because nowadays is, I mean, if you go out for dinner, you Google it, where do you want to go? I don't know. You type in something and it pops up. So you just got to be so good that it comes up. I mean, it's, [00:33:00] I do a blog every single day and I view that as very critical part of our advertising.

00:33:15 So your odds go up. And then you can ask your five questions and pair that 20, 000, that people down to the job you want. Yeah. How

00:33:28Bryant Gillespie: #6600cc;">Bryant Gillespie: many contact you [00:33:30] in like the course of a week?

00:33:32Dan Sawatzky: #72b372;">Dan Sawatzky: A lot.

00:33:45 card, can you follow up? So, no, I won't follow up. Here's my card. If you're interested, call me because I only have so much time. I don't chase work. We can't put, Peter says he's, you can't push a rope.

00:34:00 without knowing it

00:34:03Bryant Gillespie: #6600cc;">Bryant Gillespie: is like, do you have it? Like if you like developed like this radar for, for like kicking out people that are going to waste your time in the process, well, everybody talks

00:34:12Dan Sawatzky: #72b372;">Dan Sawatzky: big.

00:34:14Bryant Gillespie: #6600cc;">Bryant Gillespie: Yeah, that's what I was gonna [00:34:15] say like it would especially with like the work that you do I can imagine there would be a Lot of people that are like, hey, we want to do this We want to do that and we think you could do it really well and then you know, like yeah I

00:34:26Dan Sawatzky: #72b372;">Dan Sawatzky: mean, I was at a farm last week and and I met those [00:34:30] people at the conference and it's called okay For me to come visit is gonna be for three days.

00:34:45 you know, a concept drawing looks like that. Right. So that's a thousand bucks. And I can do three of those in a day, which customer doesn't need to know, but it's, it, you know, and, and the design package has to be paid for in [00:35:00] advance.

00:35:14Bryant Gillespie: #6600cc;">Bryant Gillespie: And [00:35:15] you gotta like buy into the process wholeheartedly. Otherwise, it's just not a good fit.

00:35:21Dan Sawatzky: #72b372;">Dan Sawatzky: And then, you know, that customer and they get to talk and say, I'm not trying to sell you anything.

00:35:30 want a piece for next year, you have to book by January or you're not going to get it. And I might be sold up in January. I don't know. That's next year.

00:35:40Bryant Gillespie: #6600cc;">Bryant Gillespie: So what is like the, what's like the average scope of a product? [00:35:45] Like, where do you guys usually come in on? Like if we take like a mini golf,

00:35:49Dan Sawatzky: #72b372;">Dan Sawatzky: at a million bucks of which our budget is at least half.

00:35:59Bryant Gillespie: #6600cc;">Bryant Gillespie: Yeah. But [00:36:00] are they approaching you at like the. The very formation of it. Like, Hey, we know we're going to do a mini golf. It's going to

00:36:08Dan Sawatzky: #72b372;">Dan Sawatzky: be Yeah, yeah, yeah, no, you have to trust me is I don't want to do a jungle mini golf I don't want to do a pirate mini golf. I don't want it all [00:36:15] the common ones Go away, not interested.

00:36:19Bryant Gillespie: #6600cc;">Bryant Gillespie: But from the very inception, like they're coming to you and saying, Hey, we want to do a mini golf. We want you to do it.

00:36:26Dan Sawatzky: #72b372;">Dan Sawatzky: It's going to be here. Yeah. They've seen my work. They not, again, I'm not [00:36:30] Walmart. If you're trying to save money, uh, don't do the job or hire someone else. Um, you're not going to save money with me.

00:36:45 guy. Yeah, I,

00:36:46Bryant Gillespie: #6600cc;">Bryant Gillespie: I just trying to understand like, the scope of, of everything that you guys do. Like what's involved in a project

00:36:53Dan Sawatzky: #72b372;">Dan Sawatzky: for you guys. Typically. Typically. Okay. Typically there's a preliminary design first, where I showed it at one drawing.

00:37:00 Yeah. Like the concept, if, if people are under it or on it, it needs engineering, which it's gonna add. Uh, we just. It can add significantly to the price, which we get, you know, I do the [00:37:15] design, hand it to my engineer, my engineer stamps it. And brings back and that's required for building permits and stuff, typically, and then, uh, and then it goes into this studio for fabrication.

00:37:30 talented team, and we've got a structural welder. We've got, you know, uh, there's, uh, 4 of us weld. Um, and then, and a lot of it is pure grunt work. It's hard work. You're [00:37:45] tying glass, you're bending steel, you're, you're troweling cement, you're carving it, and then, and then the paint. So, yeah,

00:37:54Bryant Gillespie: #6600cc;">Bryant Gillespie: I can just imagine, like, start to finish, like, how many hours do you guys invest in like a mini [00:38:00] golf?

00:38:00Dan Sawatzky: #72b372;">Dan Sawatzky: Well, typically, if we got 12 months of the year, we're gonna do one, possibly two, um, major projects. Okay. And then a few minor [00:38:15] ones where, you know, a farm wants Two signs or one entrance or something, and we can do, you know, three or four of those. So, and that'll fill a year. I mean, our projects, I mean, signed, uh, signs of [00:38:30] time just asked me for some articles or some, uh, pieces for the contest this year.

00:38:44Bryant Gillespie: #6600cc;">Bryant Gillespie: [00:38:45] Right. I, and it is just like it, the stuff that you guys do is such, so immersive, you know? Yeah. And that's, I, I think that's why Pete was like, you guys are not even a sign shop.

00:38:59Dan Sawatzky: #72b372;">Dan Sawatzky: [00:39:00] A sign is, A sign is, you know, most people define a sign as a flat board with letters on it. Mm-hmm. . That's not a sign that I don't know what that is. A sign to me is anything that draws attention to my customers, product, service or business.[00:39:15]

00:39:30 the big robot, and I said, okay, what is your objective here? And he says, well, we have a busy road by our place, I want to stop traffic. I said, okay, that's, you know, that's not a cheap project, but yes, I can do it. You know, [00:39:45] and we have, we have a standard in our shop and the standard is, this is, and it's too easy now because everybody carries a camera on their phone.

00:40:00 if someone isn't taking a picture. where the newspaper isn't up front. Before I finished installing, I have failed miserably and I'd never fail. That's a high

00:40:12Bryant Gillespie: #6600cc;">Bryant Gillespie: standard. [00:40:15]

00:40:16Dan Sawatzky: #72b372;">Dan Sawatzky: I can tell

00:40:16Bryant Gillespie: #6600cc;">Bryant Gillespie: you, like, I've only hit that standard a couple times with the signs that

00:40:22Dan Sawatzky: #72b372;">Dan Sawatzky: I've done.

00:40:28Bryant Gillespie: #6600cc;">Bryant Gillespie: And that's a, that's a [00:40:30] conversation I've had with Mike and I, that's why I hate that he's not on this one of like, that's why he got into the sign industry, like to have fun and make these like creative signs. And for, I feel like that's why a lot of people get into the industry and then it, [00:40:45] it just goes.

00:41:00 this desire to do these super creative signs, and now I'm like, I'm, I'm in this rutt of like, Hey, we're, we're not doing that work that I wanted to be doing.

00:41:10Dan Sawatzky: #72b372;">Dan Sawatzky: Fir first. First, my advice is what does your sign look like? [00:41:15] Is it the best sign in town? Will it win an award? Uh, if it, if it isn't shame on you, time to time to start your, your, your new project and, and build your business. Cause I mean, [00:41:30] I've had hundreds of people. I've had hundreds of people take my workshop and most of them, or many of them are people who are exactly, you described they, they, they, this is what they want to do business has dragged them way off this [00:41:45] horrible path and why is because.

00:42:00 I mean, I, I understand all that stuff, but it, but it's different. You got to think differently. I mean, when we bought our CNC router, I actually won a competition. I went down to a science show.

00:42:15 And, um, getting the prize was anti climatic, because it's called, here you go, and that was it. It was just, okay. I mean, first place in Signs of the Times magazine doesn't buy you a cup of coffee. [00:42:30] Right. And it doesn't make you a better person, so you got to get over that.

00:42:45 in 1981, I picked up a sign magazine and it was Signs of the Times annual competition issue. I still got it on my shelf. It's dog eared. And I said, someday I will be good enough to be there.

00:43:00 promise to myself. I never worked up the courage to enter for, I don't know, 15 years. I should have, but I didn't. So my advice to people is do one sign this [00:43:15] year that is good enough to enter a competition as a sample and then enter it. And if you win cool, if you don't. Well, now you know where the standard is.

00:43:30 wall, and that becomes a sales tool. Next year, do a better sample. And next year, do a better sample. And it's, to be, if you want to do what I do, it's a, between a three and five year journey, to do it full [00:43:45] time. If, if you're, you know, and then raise your prices by 20 percent overall, everything, and scare all your bad customers away.

00:44:00 20 percent you scare away will give you time to work more samples and you're on your way to becoming what I am. Simple as that. Simple as that. Walk the walk. Be the, be that guy. I mean, if you, if you raise [00:44:15] your prices, I, I, I talked to a guy in Alaska. And he took my workshop eventually.

00:44:30 So he's the only sign shop in town. And I said, tell me what's wrong with your business. And he goes, I'm working endless hours.

00:44:45 Well, it's simple. Raise your prices 20%. And he goes, I'll lose 20 percent of my business. I said, yes, you will. Absolutely. Cause it'll be cheap. It'll be expensive enough that people can go to another town and ship their sign in and replace you.

00:45:00 but those 20% you don't care about anyhow. They're not creative work because if you're doing creative work, you're the guy you think you gotta go to. And I said, if you raise your price 20%, you're now making 30% more than you were [00:45:15] before because there's no cost attached to that. That's pure profit.

00:45:30 set it just outside my studio door as I go into my workshop and everybody in the world, I know, waste 10 minutes a day. And that's a very, very conservative estimate. You know, don't, don't watch a CAD video and go work on your sample [00:45:45] for five minutes.

00:45:49Bryant Gillespie: #6600cc;">Bryant Gillespie: put it front and center, like where you can't miss

00:45:52Dan Sawatzky: #72b372;">Dan Sawatzky: it. And when you get a real crap job that sucks your soul, reward yourself with half an hour on your project. [00:46:00] I love this man.

00:46:01Bryant Gillespie: #6600cc;">Bryant Gillespie: Like, no BS, like, Hey, like, just do it.

00:46:05Dan Sawatzky: #72b372;">Dan Sawatzky: And anything less than that is just an excuse that you don't want to do it.

00:46:15 this is cool. Half of them will never do anything I say. The other half will do it for a week and then they'll fall off the wayside. And you get down to two will actually listen to me. And in two years, I guarantee you they're doing better [00:46:30] work.

00:46:30Dan Sawatzky: #72b372;">Dan Sawatzky: Way better work. Do you, uh,

00:46:32Bryant Gillespie: #6600cc;">Bryant Gillespie: do you stay in touch with the people? Like, are you, are you still doing your workshops? I've

00:46:37Dan Sawatzky: #72b372;">Dan Sawatzky: quit now because of... Gotcha. It's, that was my passion. It's not my boss's passion.

00:46:44Bryant Gillespie: #6600cc;">Bryant Gillespie: [00:46:45] I got you. Okay. But do you stay in touch with a lot of the, the sign makers that it

00:46:51Dan Sawatzky: #72b372;">Dan Sawatzky: shows and stuff, or they send me pictures.

00:47:00 change the industry in a small way. It's not in a small way. Well, I mean, I, yeah, but I've influenced people. I hopefully lose people. I mean, I love poking people. You know, I mean, if I [00:47:15] met you at a show and you were saying, Oh, I'd like to, let's say that's an excuse.

00:47:30 how is my life different? You know, if people say, Oh, you're, you're lucky you're born under a shining sun. Uh, Hey, I just had a heart, not a heart issues. I just had an open heart surgery.

00:47:45 life is busy. I. Business goes south occasion. I make horrible mistakes that cost me thousands of the dollar. Every, my life is no different than anybody else's. I'm still a very lucky guy because I've got family supporting me and I've got, you know, I've got the most awesome [00:48:00] boss in the world and life is good.

00:48:15 fun Well, I started doing that full time at age 23 So I guess that's when I retired. It's all in the mindset.

00:48:22Bryant Gillespie: #6600cc;">Bryant Gillespie: I love that. Before we close this out, can we, do you mind if we touch on like the family business thing?

00:48:29Dan Sawatzky: #72b372;">Dan Sawatzky: a [00:48:30] little bit.

00:48:32Bryant Gillespie: #6600cc;">Bryant Gillespie: So when did your son like take over as majority

00:48:36Dan Sawatzky: #72b372;">Dan Sawatzky: owner? Uh, that would be six, seven years ago. And it required a huge mindset change on my [00:48:45] part. Right down to, I mean, just check your ego, dude. You're not in charge anymore. That's

00:48:53Bryant Gillespie: #6600cc;">Bryant Gillespie: what I'm most curious about is like the transition.

00:48:56Dan Sawatzky: #72b372;">Dan Sawatzky: What happened if Peter worked with me for 14 years and then he went [00:49:00] away for 14 years. He said, I need to be, I need to be Peter for a while, not damn son. I'm like, cool. And he became an animator. He got his teaching degree in mathematics. I mean, he's a smart guy. And then he came back to help us build our house, uh, [00:49:15] 10 years ago.

00:49:30 don't need money. So it was a five year plan or that's what we talked about.

00:49:45 over a million a year. Instantly like that. And he said, you tell me you're not in it for the money. If that's the case, don't make a deal in five years.

00:50:00 year. Uh, gotcha. So we wrote up an agreement in the next two weeks and January 1st came along. I was no longer a majority owner of the business. I owned half a percent.[00:50:15]

00:50:30 it. And it was like, in my head, it's like, you're not in charge anymore. You can't do this. So I told my wife and she said, uh, cause I hadn't owned a vehicle personally in, in 30 years. Wow. Right. And [00:50:45] she said, do you, do you want a vehicle? And I went, yeah, I think I'd like a vehicle.

00:51:00 in my hair. And she says, uh, you better hurry.

00:51:15 go.

00:51:16Bryant Gillespie: #6600cc;">Bryant Gillespie: So was there like, was Peter always interested in

00:51:23Dan Sawatzky: #72b372;">Dan Sawatzky: running the business? He's not in love with running the business as much as I was running a business, [00:51:30] but the dude is talented. And he's, he humbly says, well, I'm standing on your shoulders, that's why he says, you know, everything I do learn from you and now, but, and so he's taken it to the next level.[00:51:45]

00:51:45Bryant Gillespie: #6600cc;">Bryant Gillespie: Would you, would you? Yeah. Would you attribute that to like the, like the, the first question, like your first principle, like, Hey, is this going to be fun or is it, is it like something else? Because I talked to a [00:52:00] lot of owners that are in this similar position where like, Hey, I've, I I'm getting ready to retire.

00:52:15 interested or

00:52:16Dan Sawatzky: #72b372;">Dan Sawatzky: yeah, and and and it's important that you don't hand it someone that doesn't want it Like Peter has to be Peter Peter is better at the business than I am I mean much [00:52:30] better and and much better businessman I mean we were doing a job in Trinidad or bidding a job in Trinidad just when he came on And, and this was like 14 shipping container, 40 foot shipping containers full of signs [00:52:45] and features.

00:53:00 How are you getting me in the container? Why don't we just take our tractor and push him in?

00:53:15 says, how much does it cost to build one of those pallets? And I went, I don't know, it's part of the feature. And he says, no. How much does it cost?

00:53:30 where 8 feet of pallet cost 500. Yeah, so is it not insignificant? No, and, and he said, Plus, you have to, how long does it take? And well, you just push it in. No, he says, you've got, [00:53:45] you've got a guy guiding it, another guy pushing it.

00:54:00 did the math, it was 90, 000. That I had put in a bid. Wow. And then he says, okay, what about in Trinidad? You got to get those things back out.

00:54:15 But he says, you know, when you're there, it's called, what color do we paint this? How do we do this? Where's the landscaping? Because you're running around doing all that stuff. He says, we're going to double that bid for getting this stuff out of the container too.

00:54:30 000 that I had left on the table. Customer never blink. That's Peter. He's a smart guy. So he, he, when we go through our bids, we have the formula because, you know, people say, how do you cost your stuff? It's [00:54:45] like, it, it boils down to what, what is your shop rate? Which is a very, very important number.

00:55:00 So it all has to be factored in. And so, you know, and it boils down to, and most sign shop owners forget about this, is number one is what do you think you're worth?

00:55:15 as owner? So you put that number. Now that number is sacred because anything that cuts into that number comes out of your pocket. So, if you have to buy a new computer next year, the company has got to have enough money [00:55:30] to buy that computer or it comes out of your pocket.

00:55:45 all important, you know, as you calculate your shop rate and what is stuff worth and all that stuff.

00:55:53Bryant Gillespie: #6600cc;">Bryant Gillespie: so good to hear you say that like that's like the method that we Practice and teach and [00:56:00] it's not different than than any like it shouldn't be any different for anybody else out there, which is nice Even at the the level of the game that you're at

00:56:10Dan Sawatzky: #72b372;">Dan Sawatzky: like, yeah, cuz typical you sell prices software doesn't work It's but [00:56:15] we have a we have a spreadsheet that we go through and then there's a fudge factor into that Saying, you know, you know, again, it goes back to your five questions because you know, stuff is always going to go wrong.

00:56:30 needs to be. Does the customer have to pay for that? Uh, the answer is yes, but up front. Not after the fact.

00:56:37Peter Kourounis: #de4a1d;">Peter Kourounis: I want to hear more about the inner workings of what you and Pete have there. You know, you just mentioned that a typical sign [00:56:45] shop software doesn't work for your shop.

00:56:57Peter Kourounis: #de4a1d;">Peter Kourounis: That your dream team work.

00:56:59Dan Sawatzky: #72b372;">Dan Sawatzky: Tell me [00:57:00] about it. Well, number one is we, we try and pay our help better than the industry by far because they're there. They're that creative and they're valuable.

00:57:15 I mean, I get to sign the jobs and I get all the credit. But I don't do the work, you know, there's pieces that I don't even touch that come into our shop that have my signature on them. So, number one is, is the value of [00:57:30] those guys is incredible.

00:57:45 price accordingly and technology has screwed up the industry to I, one of the examples I give is, is, uh, you know, let's say Peter does science and you carve them by hand.

00:58:00 is a great machine, and I've got a Multicam, which does stuff three times as fast. So, Peter sells a sign for, for, pick a number, for 5, 000. And he puts a whole week into that [00:58:15] job. Now you can do the job and half the time because you've got a nice little computer to help you.

00:58:30 my machine is, is twice as fast again. So if I sell the same, same shop rate, 1, 250. That's what's wrong with the sign industry. It's all [00:58:45] driven by,

00:58:45Bryant Gillespie: #6600cc;">Bryant Gillespie: like, the equipment.

00:58:47Dan Sawatzky: #72b372;">Dan Sawatzky: It's by stupid thinking. That says the shop rate is, a shop rate is not a shop rate.

00:59:00 I figure my, my CNC router can carve a sign five times as fast as I can carve a sign by hand. And I'm fast. So if, if I charge 200 bucks an hour, which is not unreasonable in this time, as [00:59:15] a shop rate, That sign should be worth a thousand bucks an hour on the machine, which is not unreasonable because it's a hundred thousand dollar sheet and you should be charging that kind of money.[00:59:30]

00:59:35Bryant Gillespie: #6600cc;">Bryant Gillespie: at. That's the point that I want to make, right?

00:59:38Dan Sawatzky: #72b372;">Dan Sawatzky: Customer doesn't do it. And I, I make, purposely make my signs on the machine look like they were done by hand. We [00:59:45] introduce texture and, and do a little bit of hand work after it, hand paint them, so that it is a handcrafted sign.

00:59:58Bryant Gillespie: #6600cc;">Bryant Gillespie: But it doesn't, yeah, [01:00:00] it doesn't make the sun any less valuable to the customer. Not

01:00:02Dan Sawatzky: #72b372;">Dan Sawatzky: at all. In fact, it should make it better. Right. You know, and, and same thing, like we use a 30 pound precision board and in the industry, especially 10 years ago, that was unheard [01:00:15] of.

01:00:30 because I mean, people say, well, how do you sell to your expensive work? And it's simple. I said, I have a piece of thir 15 pound in my shop, which I can take and run my fingernail into in front of my customer.

01:00:45 fingernails are as tough as screwdriver, but I run my finger and make this horrible scratch in it. I, and then I hand my customer a piece of 30 pound little sample and he can't touch it. Is will you, will you pay a hundred bucks for that? And he went, absolutely. Well, guess what? I just made money [01:01:00] and I'm selling a better product and I'm setting myself apart from my competition.

01:01:04Bryant Gillespie: #6600cc;">Bryant Gillespie: Yeah. It's never about price at all.

01:01:07Dan Sawatzky: #72b372;">Dan Sawatzky: Not at all. Not at all. You know, and in these days of hyperinflation, I mean, I had a [01:01:15] customer come to me, I bid a job last year. They didn't do it. They came back this year and they say, we're expecting an increase, um, but can you do the job this year? Yes. It's 20 percent more.

01:01:30 proud of what you do. Right. Absolutely.

01:01:33Bryant Gillespie: #6600cc;">Bryant Gillespie: Yeah.

01:01:34Bryant Gillespie: #6600cc;">Bryant Gillespie: If that's the message that everybody takes away from this, a hundred percent, um, As we transition into a close, I, we always ask everybody this, but what's the, what's the future for [01:01:45] you for Imagination Corporation?

01:01:47Dan Sawatzky: #72b372;">Dan Sawatzky: Straight up. Straight? I'm, I'm more encouraged than ever, you know, as I go through Sinecraft or the competition. Uh, magazine, the article or, uh, issues of the [01:02:00] magazines. I think the quality is improving in general. There's still lots of crap out there, but I don't, that's, I don't have competition. I'm not worried about them.

01:02:15 encouraged, but sign materials are better than they've ever been in terms of durability and, you know, all that stuff. The internet has allowed us to market worldwide. I don't, there's no limit. Great answer.[01:02:30]

01:02:30Bryant Gillespie: #6600cc;">Bryant Gillespie: Uh, like personally for you, Dan, like what, what do you want to be remembered for?

01:02:36Dan Sawatzky: #72b372;">Dan Sawatzky: I want to be remembered as, as a fun guy who inspired people. Hopefully I'm remembered for cool work, but it won't last forever. [01:02:45] But and I want to be a family guy. I want to be the best grandpa in the world Uh, and I think we're doing pretty good in that regard so

01:02:54Bryant Gillespie: #6600cc;">Bryant Gillespie: How many grandkids

01:02:55Dan Sawatzky: #72b372;">Dan Sawatzky: do you have?

01:03:00 who uh takes over the business He's five years old. Uh henry, we built a little wooden dinosaur a few months ago and He had fun. We did it in our shop. He cut out with a [01:03:15] jigsaw. I mean he's five years old And we screwed it together And when we were finished, he looked at me and he said, Grandpa, he says, this is pretty cool, but I think we can do better.

01:03:30 in and drive. It has to have a motor. Uh, you know, and so we built one for the parade on a golf cart. You know, that's the guy that, you know, he's going to stand on his dad's shoulders who's standing on my shoulders. [01:03:45] Imagine where we're going to do then.

01:03:54Bryant Gillespie: #6600cc;">Bryant Gillespie: Yeah, that's,

01:03:56Dan Sawatzky: #72b372;">Dan Sawatzky: that's amazing. So am I excited about the future? [01:04:00] Absolutely. Uh, and I won't be able to keep up to those guys. Right. Yeah. How

01:04:05Bryant Gillespie: #6600cc;">Bryant Gillespie: could you at at five, he's like, Hey, this is good grandpa, but what if we do this

01:04:10Dan Sawatzky: #72b372;">Dan Sawatzky: love?

01:04:15 you, I've definitely grown since last night, you know, and we'd measure him and he'd be all excited. So, so can I learn the weld today, ? Uh, not yet, but soon. It, uh,

01:04:25Bryant Gillespie: #6600cc;">Bryant Gillespie: that's great. That's great. I super excited to,

01:04:28Dan Sawatzky: #72b372;">Dan Sawatzky: didn't weld until I was in my twenties.[01:04:30]

01:04:31Bryant Gillespie: #6600cc;">Bryant Gillespie: Yeah. And he's ready. He's ready now. That's great. Well, Dan, um, man, this has been a great conversation. I really appreciate you coming on. This has been, um, like when we first started the podcast, I was like, I was making the short list of folks that [01:04:45] I wanted to talk to. You were definitely right up there at the top.

01:04:53Dan Sawatzky: #72b372;">Dan Sawatzky: Yeah. Keep interviewing the best of the best. I mean, we're all saying the same thing. His reach for the stars. Don't do crap. [01:05:00] Uh, you know, Dan Antonelli's is designed like your life depends on it. Absolutely. Yeah, it's

01:05:06Peter Kourounis: #de4a1d;">Peter Kourounis: amazing how different business models can be, but the core values remain the same.

01:05:11Dan Sawatzky: #72b372;">Dan Sawatzky: Yeah, Dan and I do very different stuff, but Dan has been a hero of mine [01:05:15] forever. You know, I mean, Shane Durnford, hero forever, you know, Tom McEltrot, you know, these guys are all. Excellence beyond excellence.

01:05:27Bryant Gillespie: #6600cc;">Bryant Gillespie: Um, any, anything we can promote for [01:05:30] you or, you know, obviously I think everybody in the industry already knows who you guys

01:05:35Dan Sawatzky: #72b372;">Dan Sawatzky: are.

01:05:45 live your dream. You know, if you want to do the good stuff, start building samples today, you know, put five minutes into it. It adds up.

01:05:58Bryant Gillespie: #6600cc;">Bryant Gillespie: Perfect device. Perfect [01:06:00] device. Um, Dan, thank you so much for coming on. Really enjoyed it.

01:06:15 interesting review

01:06:15Dan Sawatzky: #72b372;">Dan Sawatzky: as well. He's a much better guy than me.

01:06:26Bryant Gillespie: #6600cc;">Bryant Gillespie: That's even better. He's not sitting beside you and you're still singing his praises. No,

01:06:29Dan Sawatzky: #72b372;">Dan Sawatzky: [01:06:30] he's, he is awesome. He's my, he's my ultimate hero. Oh, that's

01:06:35Bryant Gillespie: #6600cc;">Bryant Gillespie: great to hear. Dan, thank you so much. I

01:06:37Dan Sawatzky: #72b372;">Dan Sawatzky: appreciate it. My pleasure.

01:06:39Bryant Gillespie: #6600cc;">Bryant Gillespie: So that's the episode.

01:06:40Bryant Gillespie: #6600cc;">Bryant Gillespie: I hope you enjoyed it.

01:06:45 GCI Digital Printing, Grand Format Printer to the Trade. GCI is not your average print shop. They pride themselves on providing you a fast, stress free experience when outsourcing. Their no excuses mindset [01:07:00] means no matter the job. They'll have it done every time.

01:07:15 episode 9, where the guys and I interview owner TJ Biedakt about top tier customer experience. If you're looking for a high quality trade printer for banners, mesh, coroplast, and more, TJ and his crew were small, [01:07:30] GCI does them all.

01:07:45 free resources and helpful tools on growing your shop. Thanks for listening.

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Ep. 22

Your Success is on You // Brad Rapone of Trade Wraps and TORQ

Ep. 24

Art Department Efficiency // Adam Wold of Creative Sign Designs

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